@OMWC once said (maybe on a Zoom) that he didn’t understand Jackson Pollock until he saw it in person. I’m genuinely interested in why.
The reason I wondered suddenly is because I ran across this video.
While the video’s narrator makes it clear that his objection to modern art is that it is commodified by the wealthy (and his disdain for the wealthy is on full display), it is also classical art that was for only the wealthy. So I’m not getting his point. Was modern art supposed to be consumed by the masses? Something they could afford to decorate their homes with? Or are the masses supposed to be able to perform this art because the barrier to entry is so low (no skills, education, or, in Jackson Pollock’s case, many tools are required)?
Honestly, this narrator’s all over the place.
Anyway, speaking of the masses and what they can afford to put in their homes, this video on Thomas Kinkade popped up in my sidebar. I’ll admit it: I like his stuff.
As the narrator says, he tried to bring beauty to an ugly world, and it certainly requires more skill than a Jackson Pollock or, even worse, Barnett Newman:
What it boils down to is the hatred for the Icky People™. Things Icky People™ like are Not Good™ seemingly by definition.
“Those Icky People must not be allowed to enjoy their lives in any way whatsoever!”
Embrace the kitsch.
Or else modern art really is just money laundering.
So now let’s talk about modern architecture, in specific, one of my favorites (ahoy nostalgia!): Googie. Think The Jetsons.
Let me bitch about how annoying it is that “Googie” and “google” are so similar and thus, people misunderstand what I said/wrote. No, I said Googie because I meant Googie.
I acquired this love upon visits to my grandparents in a tiny backwater called Mulberry, Kansas. Pittsburg, Kansas is nearby-ish. Pittsburg is also a college town, so there are reasons for it to have hotels and motels. One of these motels was the Landmark or Townsman Motel (I can’t remember), which is no longer there (fucking La Quinta). Mind you, it is a very watered-down version of Googie, but it’s where I started.
Note the different-colored doors and the kidney pool. Even today, I love kidney pools (white paint!) more than any other kind.
Before it was torn down, this was what it looked like as of 2020. Clearly, they were trying to tone it down:
Does Googie have any artistic merit? I don’t know. Do they have design merit? Absolutely.
Which brings me to a thought: Is there a difference between art and design? If so, what is it?
Googie music.
I liked the Malcolm in the Middle when Hal took up painting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3xJ-ZmUxf8
Atomic Modern!
Springtime in the Rockies. Yesterday it was beautiful; sunny and warm. Today it is about 35 and gloomy. It was snowing when I got up.
The art market offers anonymity, convenience and potential to manipulate prices making it attractive for money launderers.
Oh, HORROR.
Those are all (additional) points in favor.
+1 Hunter
I knew an artist who hated Thomas Kinkade. Whenever I heard her try to explain why to folks that were curious, whatever it was she said could have been translated into “He makes money and I don’t.”
The reasoning behind the all blue canvas has some backstory to it, specifically around issues with making blue dyes. Personally, I’m somewhat happy about seeing Mid-Century Modern becoming more popular again. I’ll also again shill Charles Phoenix for some fun around the kitsch.
Decor (bad) : https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f3/8d/bc/f38dbcbab1e30643e05f5b9caa8aaa39.jpg
Art : https://duckduckgo.com/?q=sally+mann&t=h_&iar=images&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fp1.liveauctioneers.com%2F8541%2F292581%2F155130124_1_x.jpg%3Fquality%3D70%26version%3D1686695720
We have said it a thousand times – if you have to tell someone you are virtuous, smart, funny, etc. then you are not.
If you have to explain why something is art, it isn’t. Art is one of those self-evident qualities.
Another example: Ansel Adams. His work shows very good composition and an absolute mastery of the medium which I can certainly appreciate but….not art.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=ansel+adams&t=h_&iar=images&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview-art.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2022%2F05%2F84092086_m.cc.jpg
A million college dorm rooms can’t be wrong.
For that particular shot, the composition is the problem. You have two points of focus fighting for yout attention, the prominent peak in tha background, and that big dark ridge in the foreground. And being all clustered on the right, the left feels wasted.
UnCivil: As a chemist and photographer I spent a lot of time in the darkroom and behind the lens working with light and the chemistry of photography with what was then considered advanced techniques. I am in awe of Adams’ mastery of both. His work never really grabbed me like it did so many others.
One of the things that bugs me about AI images today is that it is easy for me to see that their imagery is definitely designed to push our subconscious buttons. That is what good composition is about…pushing our buttons and most people are unaware of it when it happens. They are just ‘drawn’ to an image for reasons they cant articulate. Good composing does not make an image art nor does bad composition make it not art.
I should have put this up as one of my favorite bits of real art. When you see it you know it because you instantly just ‘know’.
We have all been there: https://duckduckgo.com/?t=h_&q=the+scream&ia=images&iax=images&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fi.ebayimg.com%2Fimages%2Fg%2FI1kAAOSwO4pj8kvW%2Fs-l1600.jpg
Suthen puts his finger on it. I love Ansel Adams and would definitely put him in the bucket of Fine Artist. I also have very little practical knowledge of photography, and would defer to Suthen at every point on the technical merits of Adams work. But, I have to disagree with him in that he does not think it art, while I do.
But, we are on the same page about decor.
BTW, love the Charles Phoenix stuff.
I’ve had the pleasure of meeting him a couple of times. He used to do slideshow presentations at Viva Las Vegas (which is how I learned of him). Nice guy, and a great public speaker.
For a second there, I thought you had stolen my vid for the weekend
That blue picture is actually a closeup of a Smurf’s butt. Very erotic.
Rawr!
There’s a good selection of Googie architecture in my town.
https://bastiensrestaurant.com/
If I could do it, it isn’t art.
could have been translated into “He makes money and I don’t.”
Da filthy hoor.
Today was our company Easter egg hunt. Basically the field by the building covered with plastic eggs with prizes inside on little paper slips. Prizes range from a Yeti cooler, lawn chairs, bluetooth speakers, or cash. In years gone by they gave away vacation days, but with the advent of “flexible planned vacation” that is no longer on the menu. Everyone in the company lines up, youth on one side, 50+ on the other, the CEO says “GO” and 120 people clear the field of brightly colored plastic eggs in less than 30 seconds.
I casually picked up 6 from the old people side and won $10. The event has been an institution since before I got here 20 years ago. Good fun.
I second OMWC’s comments – I didn’t “get” Jackson Pollock until I saw it up close. But perhaps I am the victim of a well-orchestrated CIA Psy-Op:
https://daily.jstor.org/was-modern-art-really-a-cia-psy-op/
I like Thomas Kinkade and Googie.
Jackson Pollock rules. No one else could paint the emotions that he captured.
So good.
paint the emotions
As if we needed more empirical data that brains are different. Those things just do nothing for me. Unless confusion and disinterest are the emotions he was trying to evoke.
The girlfriend and I have different aesthetic tastes. I prefer clean lines, high contrast, and stark colors. She prefers ancient, soft, and lighter colors. She has a burning hatred for anything even remotely modern when it comes to art (with the exception of photography and film), I appreciate some of it.
The point of modern anything, especially when it got “post-modern”, had nothing to do with who looked at it. The point is to “challenge” or even better, “shock”. Being deliberately ugly is a common approach.
Salvador Dali, Kay Sage, and Yves Tanguy for me. Half a generation or generation behind?
I can definitely see all three being of a piece. I can take or leave Dali, but I have friends who love his work.
R Mutt rules.
A goodly amount of Kinkade’s work that’s on the market was done by his students.
Isn’t that the case for most of the renaissance sculptors?
And a lot of the Dutch Masters.
True. A real Kinkade has another zero, or two on the price tag.
Thanks for the thought-inducing post. Art is of course a subject close to my heart. I guess you could look at any collectible and argue it shouldn’t be worth a ton of money.
I remember when the first Ninja Turtles comic came out in the 1980’s. It was an instant hit, and within weeks the first printing was being sold for $300. Collectors thought that was insane. This was a new comic by an unknown studio, and it was printed in black & white. They argued old X Men, Spider Man, etc. were not worth that much money. According to Grok, a 2023 sale of #1 was at $87,000. (I have a third printing of #1, and second printing of #2, and original prints of 3-10).
Everyone thinks that the
(or whatever they like) should be the most honored. And cannot see why anyone would pay more than they would.
I saw a video once that challenged the viewer to distinguish paintings made by children, animals, the mentally ill, and famous artists.
There wasn’t much of a difference, though I thought the crazy people paintings were the most interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-0YszoHMNY
What about those that fall into more than one category?
Children are animals.
Hmm… mentally ill animal children
Good band name and accurate description of many public-school students
“Is there a difference between art and design?”
I don’t think so. The same fads and movements played out in e.g. art and architecture and all kinds of design like furniture.
Well, there are TED talks but not TEAD, so they must be different.
Too Local News: Goodlander out of 2025 NH US Senate race
U.S. Rep. Maggie Goodlander, D-New Hampshire, has decided not to run for U.S. Senate in 2026.
The first-term representative from Nashua told News 9 exclusively on Thursday that she is not going to enter the race to succeed U.S. Sen. Jeanne Shaheen, who is retiring at the end of this term.
Could Jackson Pollock do this?
That’s the real tragedy, he did have skills and training and ended up choosing splatter.
No, that is a totally different style. It’s good, but not even remotely close in theme or vision.
Frederick: I’m not interested in what your interior decorator thinks, okay?
Dusty: I can’t commit to anything without consulting her first. That’s what I have her for, okay?
Frederick: This is degrading. You don’t buy paintings to blend in with the sofa.
Dusty: It’s not a sofa – it’s an ottoman!
One of Max’s most underrated roles – I love that movie!
I say it’s art
(Brunel’s Clifton Suspension Bridge)
I know it’s a suspension bridge, but my brain wants to know where the lower arch is. Bad brain, bad, that’s not how suspension bridges work.
The object or the image of it? Important distinction….One should shoot for both.
A couple additional thoughts. They, Kincaid and Pollack, had very different styles and goals from their art, and it is in many ways similar to a comparison to Charles M Schultz and Bill Watterson. Different periods they reacted too, different needs from their work.
“What it boils down to is the hatred for the Icky People™. Things Icky People™ like are Not Good™ seemingly by definition. Those Icky People must not be allowed to enjoy their lives in any way whatsoever!”
That makes no sense to me. Kinkaid was a massively successful commercial artist, which is what he set out to be. Pollack was recognized early on and collected, but not to the level of success that Kincaid enjoyed. While he was considered collectable during his life, he never moved into the realms that Kincaid dominated: books of his works, posters, greeting cards, and so on.
“What it boils down to is the hatred for the Icky People™.
People can like any goddam thing they want. if other people can make a living providing those things, so much the better.
I’m reminded of the disconnect between novels voted the best and novels that sold the best.
Is Ulysses truly a great novel? It didn’t sell well.
Many books commonly assigned in school didn’t sell well either. To Kill a Mockingbird is an exception to that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English-language_books_considered_the_best
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_books
I am 100% convinced of the conspiracy theory that Truman Capote ghost-wrote To Kill a Mockingbird for Harper Lee.
Comparing those two lists, the difference between being a good writer, and being a good storyteller, could not be more stark.
Blade Runner was a flop at the box office too. No one loved The Velvet Underground, not while they were still performing as such.
With books like Ulysses, or artist such as the VU, it is only partially about the work itself, but also about what it influences.
Blade Runner and Do Androids… may as well be completely different works.
I liked both, but the novel helps explain things the movie can’t discuss because of run time.
Yes, it is one of the few films that is equal to the source.
Links of Rambo? Cool.
Oh… rando. My bad
I tried to watch that video (twice), and I co0uldn’t make it 30 seconds in. Those AI/synthetic voices are insufferable.
For some reason, visual art has never really meant much to me. I’ve seen the Mona Lisa, Vermeer’s The Milkmaid, Toulouse-Lautrec’s At the Moulin Rouge</em, and many, many others, and my reaction is always the same – 'Huh. That's nice.'
I've certainly been emotionally moved by certain pieces of music and cinema – just not visual art.
I appreciate good design, so by that standard I would say that design and art are different things. Don't know how I would categorize it any further,
Heads’ up, TPTB: Tonight’s movie, “Paul” is still pending.
Set for six CT. It needed a date and time.
Thank you.
I thought it was supposed to be 7p central?
Actually yes, it is. I was not paying attention.
Well, it started. You can push it out an hour or let it go. Either way it’s just the continuation of a chaotic week.
Mojeaux/R.J.:
It’s usually scheduled for 1855 Central (different than the other evening links), which when looking at it in the calendar will display as 6 PM. I rescheduled it.
Neph, I almost did, but figured there was a method to Spud’s madness.
Mojeaux:
There is, but the method is soaked in whiskey.
/hides the fact that he’s made similar mistakes in the past when scheduling items
It was six last week. That’s what I went by.
I hope its good. I brought microwave popcorn back to the Palatial Hotel Suite®.
Is it more palatial than the double-wide?
Im somewhere between a Motel 6 and an HI Express.
There are so many things I don’t understand, music/art. etc.
Mostly I don’t understand people.
I don’t like modern art. Meh on lots of others that I can respect the work and thought that went into it, but don’t care too much for the subject.
I like Winslow Homer, my dna cousin Mary Cassatt, Georgia O’Keefe, Remington, Bierstadt, much of Monet and those guys, guy who drew Prince Valiant, some Andy Wyeth and his dad.
Also Jackson Pollock.
Pretty cool thread, even if the language is a bit overwrought.
Late to the discussion.
I have Dali prints on the wall.
I have been to the Van Gogh museum in Amsterdam twice. I love his work.
Dammit! I had my comment typed out in a separate browser and again my computer fretted and it was deleted. From scratch:
MC Escher is hands-down my favorite visual artist. (Bill Waterson is one of my heroes, and his art is gorgeous, but he is in a different category because of uh. Having characters, plots and points to make.) Escher’s portrayals of impossibilities wouldn’t feel so ‘real,’ or wouldn’t land as well as they do, because he had the traditional ability to depict reality. He just decided to purposefully push buttons, as well, but in a much more artistic way than solid blue paintings or displays of blank space as ‘art.’
Everything does sort of ‘look right,’ and it’s a great demonstration of our brain’s eagerness to fill in any and every gap so the world we see somehow makes ‘sense.’
When living in Germany in ’08, I made a trip to the Netherlands. The MC Escher Museum there is my favorite artistic experience. They had drafts of his works to see their development, as well as a mass of other original works that I’d never seen before. Was a small establishment in an almost over-the-top Dutchy neighborhood. I remember the staircases being exceptionally odd, quite vertical and with a small turning radius, IIRC.
Thanks for this, another good example of what gets out our favorite styles and what draws us in, or pushes us away.
Have you seen the documentary Stripped? It’s one of the few things that Watterson worked on after shutting down Calvin and Hobbes.
IMO if art has to be interpreted for the view by an ‘expert’ it isn’t good art. And art criticism (not just visual art but any kind of creative art) is also IMO is the origin of the word salads that have permeated modern life and speech, from Calamity Harris to all of the ‘soft’ sciences.
I believe my sister learned to swim in a kidney pool like that. 1962, somewhere near the Mojave desert, where we were stranded while we waited for a replacement radiator for the rental car that overheated crossing the desert on our way from San Diego to Pennsylvania.