Neither Mrs. Dean nor I have insurance through employers (I don’t have one, she doesn’t work enough hours). When this first hit us a year or so ago, we did the usual thing – we bought it ourselves. For the two of us, it cost an eye-watering $1,400 month for a what I would call a midtier plan – it was the COBRA plan for Mrs. Dean, but the cost was very much in line with what you can get as an individual through the marketplace. I don’t recall the coverage/benefit details, because we practically never used it for anything, since we’re both (a) healthy and (b) skeptical of corporate medicine.
Since I’m retired, we’re trying to keep our expenses under control. $1,400/month was nearly 75% of the principal and interest on the Casa Dean mortgage. Watching that amount get vaporized every month for basically nothing was, well, it sucked.
Mrs. Dean is a certified CrossFit coach (she hasn’t done it in years, but she’s still on their books). So, we got an email this spring offering her a membership in the CrossFit Medical Society. This, it turns out, is mostly a marketing wrap* for an outfit called CrowdHealth, which was founded years ago to provide, well, crowdfunding for healthcare. In a way, traditional health insurance is crowdfunding for healthcare, only wrapped in impenetrable layers of regulation and bureaucracy. CrowdHealth strips it down – you pay a flat monthly fee to cover overhead, and once a month you get asked to contribute to other members’ healthcare expenses. If you have something you want crowdfunding for, you have to eat the first $500.
We joined. For us, the flat fee is $110/month, and the crowdfunding has generally been around $350 each month. We were told that the two together generally average out to about $550/month for couples like us, and that this number has been pretty stable for a few years. So we are saving about $800 – 900 per month. The amount we can be asked to crowdfund is capped at $560/month, by the way, so our worst case scenario is that we would save “only” about $730/month.
They are ingenious about the crowdfunding ask – it is for an individual, and they tell you what it is for. So its personalized, in a way, which is nice. We’ve been tagged, for example, for pregnancy care, orthopedics, etc. To address the free-rider problem, they also have a rating for their members based on whether they chip in when asked – if you do, you get a “green” rating. We are set up to automatically approve green requests, so we have a green rating. The green requests are also screened for the requested treatment, as well – your shiny new bolt-ons aren’t going to get a green rating. The basic idea, though, is that you pay for the healthcare, and CrowdHealth cuts you a check for everything over $500 (in our case).
Now, what about the negotiated rates that the insurance companies all have, that are so much lower than the cash rate for uninsured people like us? Well, the dirty little secret is, the medical industry is built around those negotiated rates, and it’s pretty easy to get them (or something close) if you are a cash customer. CrowdHealth will also call the hospital or practice and negotiate the bill, which is apparently mostly a matter of saying “C’mon, we know you’ll take 140% of Medicare for this. And with our client, you get that money right away, without the headache of dealing with Blue Cross and waiting for months.” They can’t ask for money at an ER, so you just need to let CrowdHealth know you had to go (naturally, they have an app where you can notify them), and they contact the hospital to work a deal before the bill drops. Apparently, this process has simply not been a problem for them.
Its mildly entertaining, by the way, to see the panic and vapor lock when you tell the front desk you don’t have insurance. They corporate healthcare system is so locked in to their real customers (the insurance companies) that having someone who isn’t playing that game just does not compute for them. Their reflex is “if its not covered by your plan, it can’t/won’t be done”. What CrowdHealth does is not health insurance – you pay your bills, and you can request that they reimburse you for high-dollar care.
We’ve been happy with it. We haven’t needed to request any crowdfunding, so I can’t say how well that works. They do say that their turnaround for crowdfunding is about seven days. When we have talked with them, the people on the other end were uniformly helpful, pleasant, and well-informed.
Like most things, it won’t work for everybody. One thing to keep in mind – if you have expensive prescriptions, they do not have a prescription discount plan. But if you are self-employed, or even paying a goodly chunk of your paycheck for your employer’s plan, it’s worth looking into. $800/month is real money, after all. There is also something satisfying about opting out of the dreadful corporate healthcare payment system. As the man says: Would you like to know more?
*We were told that after a break-in period with CrossFit insiders, it will be opened up to members as well at some point, with the ultimate goal of CrossFit being its own self-funding group, which theoretically could result in lower crowdfunding asks, seeing as CrossFitters are a pretty healthy group.
You know, they’re not doing much to dispel the accusations that they’re like a religious group… I remember a few similar type of religious co-ops cropping up in the wake of Obamacare, with varying results.
For just regular primary care, I actually paid less than the negotiated rate at a couple of different clinics in Las Vegas (ironically, since becoming a wage slave and having health insurance for the first time in my life, I haven’t once visited a physician). Hospitals and specialists is another story. That said, I know there’s also concierge clinics where you pay not too much more than the insurer-negotiated rates and typically get a much better standard of care, presuming you can eat the annual fee, which can run from pretty reasonable to 6 figures.
I repeat; THIS IS NOT A CROSSFIT PROGRAM. This is a pre-existing arrangement that has been around for years that CrossFit has latched onto.
I swear, I thought this crew had better reading comprehension.
I get that, but A) we’re legally obligated to give you shit for being married to a Crossfitter, and B) it’s a similar approach to that taken by some of the religious outfits that wanted an alternative to mainstream insurance, which ties into A).
You joined a cult? 🤯
*deep sigh*
Don’t look at me. This is your post. 🤷🏼♂️
Interesting. I was on COBRA the last few months but it was under $400 a month for just me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I had multiple little bottles of capsules over the last year that clocked in at $10,000 each. Thanks to whoever out there paid for that. 🥴
Holy crap. I would have bet real money there was no “real” health insurance available anywhere for anything close to $400/month all in. I think I was paying almost that much for the employee end when I was still working.
I just pulled up a payslip – which I normally don’t look at but was required to download and attach to some recent SSA demand – don’t ask – and my monthly contribution since I re-started work on 6/1 is roughly the same.
I guess my employer was still contributing during my leave…?
Mind you, all of this is pretty close to a modern rediscovery of ye olde mutual aid society. We had to have government step in because private charity and mutual aid societies were failing too many vulnerable people, only to have to reinvent the wheel after the government characteristically fucked it up beyond any human comprehension. It’s a good thing for Gell-Mann amnesia, or we’d probably have a revolution every 5 years or so.
NJ says “fuck you”.
But thanks for the article and some good info. Much appreciated.
so you just need to let CrowdHealth know you had to go (naturally, they have an app where you can notify them), and they contact the hospital to work a deal before the bill drops. Apparently, this process has simply not been a problem for them.
Not a problem? Really? That’s interesting and not what I expected.
“Either you pay the negotiated rate or we lecture you on the virtues of Crossfit. Your decision.”
CrowdHealth is not CrossFit. I thought I made that reasonably clear.
So maybe Crossfit should tell you about their health insurance when you sign up and not make you you look for a different wedsite.
I’m just keeeeeeding RC.
Et Tu Jacques!?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqGqUa6p2wM
And I had so much respect for this man.
Cream makes everything better.
I’m… not gonna touch that.
That’s what she said?
Yeah, it does.
https://youtu.be/Bwmf58-GkG0?si=Wx6yDkpjxVJ4wSWS
I feel free
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJktf4aTNvk
Good article, RC. We fit into that category – self-employed, healthy, intense dislike for the medical system. Purchasing from the exchange for Bronze plans we not only pay a premium but another 25K before we receive any benefits.
I would look into this kind of arrangement then. Sounds like you’re in the same box as us.
Obamacare really fixed our problems.
“One thing to keep in mind – if you have expensive prescriptions, they do not have a prescription discount plan.”
This is not entirely accurate. I had to pick up some prescription eye drops today, and there is a pharmacy benefit card (in the app, because of course) included that saved me about $30 on an $80 cash price. Under our old BCBS plan, it was $30. So there’s something, but the BCBS deal was better.
I can’t remember the company, but I used a stand-alone prescription discount card/plan thing when I was uninsured, and was surprised that it actually shaved a substantial amount off. Mind you, that was just on a couple rounds of antibiotics, and hydrocodone for wisdom teeth.
Ugh, rX eyedrops reminds me of a few years ago with an ailing dog. I think we used GoodRx at the Kroger pharmacy with his meds; didn’t have to download an app, just show the coupon on the phone. Saved at least 70% or more.
Hmm, for just me it’s a paltry $195/month. I need to review my pay stubs but I’m 99% sure that’s a huge discount on what I’m paying through work. I’m coming up on 52, but still very fit.
Are you sure you have health insurance? That’s an incredibly low price.
That prices is for 1 person on CrowdHealth, not what I pay through work.
Strangely, there may be benefits available to those with no insurance, non citizens. I don’t know how any of that works but from what understand the recipients like it.
Ogles made a series of criticisms about the Senate’s version of the bill after it passed Tuesday afternoon, including complaints about the bill forcing his constituents to pay for illegal aliens’ healthcare and not doing enough to halt taxpayer dollars from subsidizing green energy projects
I’m in Florida. If a shit ton of these people on Medicaid aren’t illegal, I’d be stunned.
We really ought to have a Florida Glib meet-up. There are at least 4 of us down here: me, you, Shpip, Brett…
I know there are others, but I can’t think of their names off the top of my head.
I am going to be in Panama City Beach again in early August.
“What CrowdHealth does is not health insurance – you pay your bills, and you can request that they reimburse you for high-dollar care.”
…What if you can’t pay the bills? I presume CrowdHealth is kinda for people like you who are retired and well-off enough to swing the sways. Crowdfunded healthcare also seems suited for those who *couldn’t* afford their hospital bills. A GoFundMe but streamlined towards med stuff. Personal stories and word-of-mouth to help bring traffic.
I’m gonna be on Walmart’s plan in a bit, but for now I’m on Medicaid, and for me at least, it’s done quite a good job. I’m with many/most here, the employer +healthcare bond is a, if not *the* key fuckery in why US med care is so askew. Antiquated, ineffectual, with persistent inertia.
There’s nothing saying you can’t combine the two. Start a GoFundMe/GiveSendGo/Whathaveyou to pay the base fee, or less expensive care. Same thing a lot of people do if they have a really high deductible.
There is a voice in the back of my head that says I will be working forever to stay on the company insurance. The wife and I both have some expensive maintenance meds.
thanks for the article.
Same. Why would you seek this out for “fun”? The nausea is not fun. The constipation is not fun. I don’t get the attraction. I had to ask my son to go into Walgreens and buy suppositories. Humiliating.
Then again, I remember watching a Twins baseball game after a knee replacement, and thinking “I’ll just skip this dose of oxycontin. Ten minutes later I was fighting for my life. (much like the Twins).
I snorted some heroin at my BFF’s girlfriend’s house one night and projectile vomited it into her bathroom sink not half an hour later. That was fun.
I never heard the end of it.
*shrug*
Have smoked brown heroin before, but only a bit. (I DID inhale!) It was fun. Chill. Set and setting, and was with similar friends. Recreational pain pills for sure. Hard to say, cuz exclusively paired with *something.* Certainly weed and likely alcohol+. They definitely stop you up.
“I never heard the end of it.” uni friend Emily didn’t let that die for quite a while.
Veering into serious but also (to me) hilarious in hindsight – My second acid trip, the Damn Good Shit entry, directly segued into getting shingles on MLK Day in 2006. That kinda-sorta can’t be a coinky-dink.
Probably a coincidence. I’ve done plenty of acid without any consequence other than the blurry vision that I seem to be able to summon at will.
I’m on anti-shingles meds for now. A whole raft of vaxes are coming up – part of my future is re-vaxxing everything – and I wonder if that one is going to be in the mix. I have a feeling some uncomfortable conversations are coming next month and I am not sure I’m knowledgeable enough to make a case against vaxxing the shit out of me. I’m not against the obvious ones I grew up with decades ago but it seems like there are too many now.
I did opt for Shingrix shot #1 on Thursday (along with a tetanus booster); I would very much like to not get shingles and, AFAICT when I looked it’s appears reasonably safe and effective.
Still passing on flu shots and Covid “boosters”; my primary didn’t press me on those too hard.
Do everything to avoid shingles. I get jokingly miffed when the radio overhead at work announces its shingles vax and other preventative whatever. They always say it’s for people over 50. I was only 18! Whattabout me?!
Then, they thankfully tell you that ~90% of adults already have it lingering in them (same ‘family’ as chickenpox (and herpes!)), adding that shingles can make a comeback later on.
That’s swell. Don’t get shingles. BUT, if ya do: Valtrex. That shit’ll fuck it up DAMN fast. I couldn’t get it that weekend cuz the uni hospital was closed for the holiday. *young-me kicks pebble*
Day one of wife being home. Holy hell was it rough, thanks to a couple of conditions picked up in the hospital. Was thinking wtf are we doing at home last night. Much better today.
Wound care supplies on discharge to last until the follow up appointment in a week were grossly under supplied. Bandage change daily with one replacement covering (“you can cut it to fit, so there plenty in there”. Fucking petrolatum bandages are a pain to work with, wouldn’t be sterile after opening and reused, and bandages on the wound are larger than the nurse apparently estimated). Oxy prescribed (continued) at 1-2 every 3 hours with a grand total of 20 pills. Even I can do the fucking math on these. Thankfully local medical supply store had just about everything needed. Tomorrow phone doc office to beg a refill.
Good to hear some positive news, GL. The missus will do much better at home. Good luck with the pain pills. There is a reluctance to prescribe anything besides Tylenol.
Pretty sure there was a nifty little study that found that over the counter pain meds were just as effective at reducing pain as the narcotics, don’t ya know. It totally wasn’t biased and shit out just to justify restricting pain meds. You people just want to get high.
The prospect of needing more than over-the-counter paid meds for any extended length of time terrifies me.
Opioids make me nauseous and plug me up. Dunno if there is actually anything else effective out there.
I missed the original story, but that sounds insane, a lengthy hospitalization for a tooth. I’m sorry.
I definitely missed the story. I hope Mrs. GL is okay.
+1
Abscess infection that went necrotic. Couple of separate surgeries to pull teeth, clean out, and skin graft. In between therapy on the wound to heal before the next stage.
Initial estimate was a couple days when we went to the ER for swelling and pain.
She is. And happy to be home. Gonna to be some follow up work later but that for the future.
Thank you all for the good thoughts and wishes. As I said before and can’t say enough, I’m immensely grateful to have Glibs as an outlet over the past few weeks.
Oof. I had all my teeth pulled a couple months ago because reasons.
Fun times. I am so fucking tired of soup and mashed potatoes.
Damn. Big boost to being home. Fantastic news. Good on you for everything. Agreed, best of luck with the med refill.
My wife and I retired 5 years ago at ages 59/58 and we have been “gaming” the Marketplace for low-cost health insurance. We keep our taxable income below about $70K by withdrawing from a Roth account when we need more than that. We always get a bronze plan and with the supplement based on our income have paid as little as $2.40/month for the insurance.
I’m not sure how it would have played out if we had a crowdfunded plan like you describe. Last year I had triple bypass surgery and ended up paying about $10K out of pocket to cover the deductible; the total cost was like $90K (after the insurance discount). I was able to cover most of it with an HSA I had been able to create shortly before retiring.
Next year I’ll turn 65 and will have to convert to Medicare.
Triggered! Ha! Legit, my first memory (IIRC…) I was 4 and getting my tonsils taken out. I’m layin’ there, with the doc in his gown, mask and little doc-light on his head, with BIG white eyes, a bit after I drank a med shot of green mucus to put me under.
Him looking into me: “You’re gonna go to sleep! And I’m gonna go inside your mouth!”
Frightened by this… questionable declaration, I went under. Happily, I’ve never had strep again. I never got any damn ice cream, neither!
I remember the ice cream, the glorious ice cream!
But what about your precious bodily fluids?
***
Gen. Ripper: Mandrake, do you realize that in addition to fluoridating water, why, there are studies underway to fluoridate salt, flour, fruit juices, soup, sugar, milk… ice cream. Ice cream, Mandrake, children’s ice cream.
Gp Capt. Mandrake: [very nervous] Lord, Jack.
Gen. Ripper: You know when fluoridation first began?
Gp Capt. Mandrake: I… no, no. I don’t, Jack.
Gen. Ripper: Nineteen hundred and forty-six. 1946, Mandrake. How does that coincide with your post-war Commie conspiracy, huh? It’s incredibly obvious, isn’t it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That’s the way your hard-core Commie works.
Gp Capt. Mandrake: Uh, Jack, Jack, listen… tell me, tell me, Jack. When did you first… become… well, develop this theory?
Gen. Ripper: Well, I, uh… I… I… first became aware of it, Mandrake, during the physical act of love.
Gp Capt. Mandrake: Hmm.
Gen. Ripper: Yes, a uh, a profound sense of fatigue… a feeling of emptiness followed. Luckily I… I was able to interpret these feelings correctly. Loss of essence.
Gp Capt. Mandrake: Hmm.
Gen. Ripper: I can assure you it has not recurred, Mandrake. Women uh… women sense my power and they seek the life essence. I, uh… I do not avoid women, Mandrake.
Gp Capt. Mandrake: No.
Gen. Ripper: But I… I do deny them my essence.
***
Sarah McLachlan — Ice Cream
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_tR55b9i3Q
I’m your Ice Cream Man – Van Halen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2RKWJD5ops
Eddie Murphy – Ice Cream
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtMIgr7pryo
“Gen. Ripper: But I… I do deny them my essence.”
HA! Crazy ex texted me outta the blue last night. First msg in uh.. over a year? I joke with myself, quoting that. I’m ever-so glad I, did indeed, deny her my essence. (We fucked like rabbits. Fantastic. But we were both sober for the first time in a long while, and she and we both had fun, but I’m quite pleased in hindsight my id had some telepathic foresight. Her bi-polar hadn’t revealed itself again, though I witnessed it 15-years prior at IU.
Probability of her pulling me back in? Well. Not impossible.
EV, hun, if you’re still there: TM fucking I yet again.
OMGLOL
Thanks for the write up. I get asked how that works on occasion since they advertise on podcasts.
Haha yep. I could probably recite the entire CrowdHealth ad read from “Part of the Problem” with Dave Smith. I’ve heard it probably twice a week since about 2017.
gator training
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW7tP3zhwt0
HUGE TRAINED ALLIGATORS – know their names and come when called!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkXJdgqdLfs
My aunt turned 79 a couple of days ago. She cray-cray. She left a Vietnam vet who was also cray-cray (his fake leg was fascinating to young pistoffnick) We won’t go into that. She’s still working full time for that sweet health care.
There has to be a better way.
I asked a long time friend (who is a GP) about concierge care a while ago. He said the 2 big local Duloot hospitals will restrict admitting priveleges for serious illnesses to anyone who isn’t affiliated with either of the two systems. It’s mob mentaltity, applied to healthcare.
/short hairs
Tying health insurance to employment was a fucking stupid idea, and healthcare policy in the US has done nothing but cement that relationship for decades.
There are other organizations that people have much more lasting relationships with than their employers… Churches, fraternal organizations, clubs, etc.
The problem with American health insurance is that the government has tried to make it into something it’s not: The primary way to pay for everything.
Insurance is not and never can fill that role. If you proposed to take that approach with anything else, you’d rightly be laughed out of the room, but with healthcare, it’s just assumed that this is the way it has to be.
Then people throw up their hands, declare that the “completely unreglated” approach hasn’t worked, and support “universal healthcare”.
(That’s in scare quotes because it’s not true that everyone always gets exactly what they need when they need it.)
Living In An Airplane In The Woods For $370 A Month
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLo7GwiGdWE
***
Bruce Campbell, 73, lives in a Boeing 727 200-passenger jetliner that is 1,066 square feet and weighs around 70,000 pounds. He bought the plane for $100,000 in 1999 and spends $370/month on property taxes and electricity.
***
Eh, I can beat that with a mobile home. Not as cool though. But has about the same amount of square feet.
Morning Slackers!
Hey.
Happy hump day in Trump’s America.
🐪☀️🇺🇸
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ2cEc_TCH8
🎶🎶
Reaching back a bit farther again.
Good morning!
☕️
Black coffee in bed?
Not Trump Day to honor the king?
suh’ fam
whats goody
https://tenor.com/view/fat-girl-flow-gif-19821147
Oh hell yeah!
In this heat/humidity, I can already see the sweat percolating up from those rolls. Shame I dont have time to retire to my bunk.
https://www.cbsnews.com/philadelphia/news/philadelphia-strike-911-dispatchers/
Get back to work!
Would Philly be any less of a shithole if they went back to work?
https://www.theverge.com/news/695611/amc-theatres-movie-preshow-ads-warning
25-30 minutes of ads. They’re not hiring the best and brightest, are they?
1. Complain that people aren’t coming to theaters.
2. Play a ridiculous number of ads, trailers, and other bullshit.
3. Profit.
Why go?
Imagine what they could charge for ad breaks during the film …
If your “Official Start Time” is not when the first scene of the movie begins playing, you are scum.
Ads between the “Official Start Time” and the end of the last reel are unconscionable and would make me demand a refund.
Ads are vile.
People still go to theaters? Why?
I have a large screen at home. You know, that place where I have MY bathroom, MY refrigerator, MY couch. The place where I control the volume, start and stop the show when I want…why, in the name of God, would I go to a movie theater?
If there are still people who do that it seems the theater companies are trying like hell to keep them away.
Every time I have been to a theater, it was a social event with friends and/or family. The interruption of the movie gave time for the introverts to recharge their social batteries and be able to resume afterwards.
This was also during the poor times, when none of my friends and/or family could afford a large screen anything.
Someone here recently mentioned theater seats and bedbugs, which is a horror I’d never considered.
One more reason to stay home
Bedbugs. I keep hearing stories about Europe being eaten up with them. An acquaintance is in Paris as I type this. She will be back soon so I will have to ask.
One of the things I noticed about a lot of third worlders is their complete indifference to pests. Mosquitoes, flies, fleas, ticks, bedbugs, roaches, rats, mice….it seems such things are invisible to them. That is just the tip of the iceberg….then there are the invisible ones..bacteria, viruses…..
Local theater was just recently renovated with new everything, including heated recliners. Still no interest in going. *shrug*
Morning.
whaddup cuz
Not much. Work day again.
Good morning, U, homey, Stinky, Sean, Ted’S., and Teh Hype!
How goes?
Pretty well, thanks! Dragons lost again last night, but I’ve come to expect that. 😞 Got payroll posted with the necessary changes and got a head start on month-end stuff. Now if that one newly-eligible 401(k) participant gets her account open before the payroll processor sends over her first employer contribution, all will be well.
How are you?
Maybe next season their opponants’ best players will get called up to the Majors.
I’m doing all right. Would prefer to be back at the house, but it’s an office day. So I’ll be bored here instead of bored there. I need to make sure I water the plants when I get back, they’re due, but I didn’t have enough time before I left. The soil wasn’t dry-dry, so they should make it the nine hours I’m away.
Hotel cleaning staff must love me. Yet again, I’m leaving behind a 12-pack and then some.
Happens all too frequently.
Damn it! I was at the biggest and bestes Meijer last night in Canton. You would’ve thought Trump built it. And I forgot to check for Claussen Hearty Garlic slices.
😱
No pickle?
I didn’t remember to check. But that variety is quite elusive in the SW Ohio.