Today’s question is personal and possibly easily answered. Or maybe not so much.
How old were you when you realized your parents were fallible human beings?
Was it a dawning realization over time, or was there a precipitating event?
Or, did you always think of them as just other people?
Or…do you still think your parents are infallible?
7
An argument
No
No
It would have been to my benefit to realize my dad was fallible long before I did. Fallible in little things, sure (Kathie Lee Gifford == Cathy Lee Crosby … um no).
I didn’t start realizing HOW fallible he was until my oldest was heading into double digits.
I thought it was the Playboy magazines. *tucks tail*
1) Did I actually tell that story here? OMG I totally forgot if I did.
2) It’s hard to explain my dad. He carried a very big weight of authority about him AND he was charismatic and charming so no matter the evidence, none of one failing translated to general fallibility in my mind. EVERYBODY loved him. If I had issues, I must have been the one in the wrong.
My Dad was 6’4″ back when everyone was short. He literally looked down on his sons.
The conscious realization came quite late, but by age 7 I felt that something was deeply wrong.
Long unhappy story, the tl;dr is eldest surviving child in a deeply, multiply, dysfunctional family.
Downton Abbey? Surely not!
How old were you when you realized your parents were fallible human beings?
maybe 10 or 11.
Was it a dawning realization over time, or was there a precipitating event?
dawning realization. I dont know that it was ever anything I particularly thought about. They were authority, and it was a series of realizations that
1) they (*cough* mom) didn’t always have their shit together
2) what they said wasn’t the only “right” answer
3) their reaction to the situation wasn’t always faithful to how they actually felt
4) marriage stress was being taken out on me
This. Finally figured out that when my mom would get furious with me over innocuous offenses, it was because it somehow reminded her of something my dad had done.
I think maybe I was 10 when I realized their fallibility – IIRC, my mom got mad at me because I’d supposedly forgotten to thank her for the birthday party she gave me, though I knew I’d acknowledged her to my friends during the party (and she’d heard it.)
You neglected to send a hand-written note of appreciation. Faux pas.
7’ish.
When an Aunt would buy me Count Chocula cereal when we visited but mom made me eat granola and oat meal at home.
No
No
Count Chocula is ass man.
Wait….hold on. Do you mean, “Count Chocula is ass (nasty), man”, which is wrong…
Or, did you mean, “Count Chocula is Ass-Man!”, as in, secret identities, and such?
/heheheheh….”tities”
This is a hard one.
My parents are proggies through and through. Over the years, I’ve accepted that we are just never gonna agree on the role of government or what constitutes liberty.
That said, I owe a lot of what i have become to their guidance. I still espouse my dad’s business demands from the days I worked for him as a teenager. He was a fucking beast in that regard (which actually confuses me why he is a proggie). My mom taught me a ton about the day to day demands of life.
So, when did I recognize that they are fallible? Not totally sure, but it’s been a long time.
Definitely over time.
But I really don’t care. What they have done for me still tips the scales, big time. We have so little in common, but I would definitely go to the mat for them.
Interesting poll, SP. Thanks for this one.
11ish is probably the point that I remember for my mom. That one was a singular point in time.
My dad was much later in life. He was my dad and I knew of his short comings but its hard to watch that cape fall of their shoulders when it does finally come to realization that they are just human.
1. No idea
2. Over time
3. No
4. No
Same. My parents are both pretty impressive in very different ways.
1. No idea, but I think it was pretty young.
2.
3. No
4. No
I think I would feel like a total failure if my kids, as adults, considered me infallible.
I’m clear with my kids. I’m not perfect, I will make mistakes as will they.
The important part is making the decisions and owning the outcome for better or worse. No shirking of responsibility or passing it off.
this. heck, I’ve apologized to the 3 year old for overreacting once or twice.
It’s a fine line between legitimate authority and infallible.
Sometime around ten
Dad backhanded me in public for something that was an accident and just because he was pissed. I didn’t take it well. He was generous but angry when I was a kid. As an adult, I realize a lot of it was that he was very jealous of any time mom spent on anything other than him, kids included. Which should seem strange because he cheated on her back then. He’s an odd man, simultaneously very capable and dysfunctional.
No and no
That’s easy.
Watching the incredibly acrimonious divorce — with all its attendant physical violence and screwing-over — unfold in real-time when I was 12 years old or thereabouts.
My Mom was asshoe. My Dad was even more asshoe than Mom. If I could’ve emotionally distanced myself from the carnage, it would’ve been popcorn-worthy.
Oh, and it’s fine. One of the most useful things for my own marriage has been the constant reminder that, if I want to have a successful marriage, all I have to do is the opposite of what my parents did.
This has been incredibly successful, all things considered.
Mine weren’t quite that bad, but I was around fourteen when they split the first time, and their behavior during the split, the reunion and the inevitable re-split cemented it for me. Parents are mortal and entirely fallible human beings. Now that I have two kids of my own, my sympathy for them has grown (especially since they had twice as many!) Also they each remarried and are tons easier to deal with now that none of us are dependent on any of the others. Time, and just not poking at shit, can heal a lot of things.
This. I wanted them to split but they strung it along for another twenty years.
my parents getting a divorce was one of the best things to happen to me in high school. my grades increased an entire point overnight, and that was just the quantifiable change
Mine technically made it to 20 years, but I can definitely say the twenty-five they’ve had since have been better for each of them. I have reasons to be upset with each of them from the experience, but you know what? It’s been twenty five years. You have to let go of shit at some point, if you aren’t going to write someone out of your life entirely. I would never ever go to my mother for financial or career advice, and I would absolutely never ask my father how I should discipline my kids, but outside of those parameters, they’re great people and I love them for their own different qualities.
Seven or eight, I suppose.
I honestly don’t remember.
Not when I was a little kid.
No. Two of the finest people I’ve ever known? Yes. They made my siblings’ and my childhoods wonderful.
My Dad is, to this day, coming up on three years after his passing, my primary personal hero and role model. Mom was a damn fine role model for what a mother and grandmother ought to be.
But infallible? No.
More or less this. I have no memory of my father, just a succession of mom’s boyfriends and husbands. I look back at the chaos and marvel that she did as good a job as she did but no, I don’t think I was ever under the illusion that she was “infallible”.
The kid shouldn’t be meeting his mom’s “boyfriend”. Maybe after a year or so of serious dating and marriage looks likely, but I don’t get moms that tell their kid, “This is Mr X, we’re going on a date tonight. Wish me luck!”
“Mr X” sheepishly waves from the doorstep… 25 years, Straff. I had long locks back then so her ex called me “Pretty Boy”. Fair enough.
I know it happens, but I just feel for the kid who has to think about mom’s sex life.
Well, I only recall one of those. The other “boyfriends” I had in mind were serious shack-ups. Two became marriages – one horrible, and one very good one that lasted to the end. The horrible marriage came between the first shack-up with good-marriage guy and the second shack-up that led to the good marriage.
Glad to hear the last one worked out.
🙂 A good 20 years or so together that my mom deserved. All of them as empty nesters, since they married when I left for college.
Once you realize your parents lied about about Santa Claus, it’s over.
Only 15 in before the glib answer arrived! We all have serious issues with our parents and the lies they used to keep us down and promote their corporate socialism upon us!
Someone literally wrote the book on that.
Also, my mom never made me this.
I have a use for the 2lb block of cheese now. Thanks Western. My kids thank you and my wife scolds you.
2 pounds?
Piker.
We get 5-pound blocks. Extra-sharp cheddar rocks.
Only way to get that stuff.
Good lord. I love all the ingredients, but… OMG.
I would not waste the ingredients or time on that monstrosity.
I guess the big turn-off is while I love cheese, I don’t necessarily like great big huge flowing gobs of it.
You want to try it. Be honest.
Not really. See above.
*raises hand*
*grabs hot sauce*
I had an aneurism just thinking about eating that thing…
I’m hungry.
I think my heart just clogged.
You’ve got enough clogged right now!
There’s not nearly enough power tools involved. FAIL!
I like it! Yes there is room for improvement in technique.
No.
My heart just seized.
*reconsiders enema bag*
Don’t let anyone harsh your dreams, man.
Eat that and you’ll need it.
When I was 16 a friend and I stole a 10 lb. block of cheddar cheese from the kitchen we worked at. We took it to the Boundary Waters Canoe Area as our main food source. Three days in we were trying to trade cheese for anything else from the people we met at portages. Nobody wanted to trade.
So you didn’t do the Costanza? Sit in your underwear on your couch with that block of cheese while watching a movie?
She didn’t want you to stroke out at 12.
How old were you when you realized your parents were fallible human beings?
I never met my dad, but with my mother, it was probably when I was eight or nine.
The older I got, the more I realized that her judgement was, at best, suspect. After her passing three years ago, trying to put her affairs in order made me realize just how good Mom was at making bad decisions. Still, I loved her dearly.
She used to sometimes tell me during an argument “You have a lot of your grandfather in you.” She didn’t mean it as a compliment, but having taken the measure of both her and her father’s character, I’ll take it as one.
When my Dad passed, my Aunt said something really funny to me. Apparently when she dropped out of Nursing School a semester short to get married Grandma blew up at her. ” You Goddamned Rosses never finish anything!” She was right.
“How old were you when you realized your parents were fallible human beings?”
Maybe 4?
“Was it a dawning realization over time, or was there a precipitating event?”
That they disagreed with each other, they both couldn’t be right.
“Or, did you always think of them as just other people?”
Well, no.
“Or…do you still think your parents are infallible?”
I don’t.
1:22am and I’m trying to get some hotel sleep. Three sharp bangs on the wall got the guy in the next room to turn his TV down (it’s the international code for STFU I’m trying to sleep), but then half an hour later it’s back on, accompanied by loud snoring.
Pull my jeans on and be “that guy” now? I don’t think so, but I will give him a 5:30am wake-up rise and shine.
Oopsy poopsy that’s not supposed to go there
Twice on the pipes and the answer is no.
Maybe?
Tink. Tink. Tink. Means you’ll meet me in the hallway.
Twice on my pipe (slrrp, slrrp) means I ain’t gonna blow!!
/Aww, geeze–I’m sorry about that. Sorta.
I don’t recall
Everything up to this point has always been slowly dawning in every regard
Individual human beings with rich and full lives, myriad trials, and tribulations, joys and anxieties. I understand them a little better every day as I grow older, but I will never fully understand them. I say this because I do think sometimes of how extraordinary my parents are, and how my understanding of them as people in a wider context is still growing, even through adulthood. It turns out that we’re very different people in many regards, but perhaps more products of our times and experiences.
#@%#!
My Congrasshole must be outspending his opponent 50-to-1. Another commercial from him before SNF. On top at least 40 or 50 mailings. And people wonder why the incumbent wins 90% of the time.
I ran away from home @ 6 maybe 7 years old. I made it clear across town, to my grandparents house. ?
I’m going with that being a pivotal moment in fallibility.
I don’t recall what my beef was though.
For the record, I had good parents. I was just a little pain in the ass, with strong opinions…for many years.
I made it as far as my friend’s house (3 miles away), where his mom ratted me out. my plan was to use the only $20 to my name to take a taxi to my grandparents house, 200 miles away.
The Lincoln Project on 60 Minutes makes me want to punch a baby.
I think every one of those guys was born a douche.
I don’t know what age it would have been, but whatever age my mom had her first screaming fit (that I remember) threatening to walk out on us. I always knew something was not right, but I never knew how to explain it to anybody in a way that they’d understand. That, and it would have gotten back around to Mom.
*runs to the bedroom and cracks a book in sympathy*
Yeah, I did a lot of reading when I was a kid. It’s why I’ve got an even more Cliff Clavin-like store of useless knowledge than Derpetologist.
Big hit at “Trivia Night” I’d venture!
6-7. When I was about 9 and realized that my Mother was having an affair with her brother-in-law. When I was 12 or so. Nope. They were ill-equipped for the job, much like the Romanian troops at Stalingrad. It wasn’t fair but it was what it was.
Check out Mark Corrigan over here.
“(You can have good relationships with people who scare you. Just look at me and dad.)”
I love that program.
More Mark
Your mom fucked Marty Brodeur?
Yeah, wasn’t so funny at the time. Kinda shaped my own life’s philosophy moving forward.
Maybe?
They divorced when I was 4, and tried to be amicable for my sake, but they did occasionally shit-talk each other. Generally speaking neither of them really ever had their shit together. So maybe I never thought they were infallible, or else it was just a slow dawning realization, I’m not sure.
I turned that page on Mom long before Dad. When he left me stranded 20 miles from home after a baseball game the balance tipped. I was 12 and just started walking with my cleats on. She was always “eccentric” but that feeling of abandonment really stuck with me even though I knew even then that he was a cold and aloof man.
Ah, you had a “forgotten at sports event” experience, too? That’s when it was cemented in my head that my mom only gave a shit about her piano students.
I was doing the actual “Bluth walk” down the highway and my friend’s parents pulled over and gave me a ride home. Uniform on, cleats, no jacket. Lucky that Pogo The Clown wasn’t trolling about.
6. When my father was killed in an auto accident.
No.
No.
Gah! Sorry, Friend.
It’s ok, Festus. Life goes on. Although it is interesting how childhood can effect later life. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve been watching Jordan Peterson and end up saying, “Holy Shit! So that’s the reason…”
My elder, smarter brother was even more aware of the dynamics and turned into a hellion. I spent most of my formative years trying to broker peace between the factions. I barely escaped alive but it damaged all of us. That’s why I won’t do any cruelty to anything so far as I can help it. Mother probably bit Satan’s ear off on the way to Hell.
I have three considerably older brothers who probably got a bigger eyeful of all the chaos I felt growing up. They were nearing their teens when it all started going tits-up while I was too young to remember that period. One of them became “the rebel”, one was the “model student” whom I patterned my life after, and one was kind of unaffected on the outside being a pretty hard aspie.
So yeah, we were a handful and I don’t give my mom (PBUH) any shit for some of things that happened over the years….
Some things you just have to let go.
I reminisced one drunken night with one brother (“the rebel” – who would probably fit right in here as it turned out) about all that shit and by the next morning forgot almost all of it. I was glad to, because there was so much of it.
In other news, I’ve decided to turn gay.
https://twitter.com/SophieASlut/status/1314172215743700995
My penis just inverted.
Mine just ran up my own bum.
Did they just learn about lipstick? As in, just before making that?
So that’s how they got their namesake!!
Probably around age 11 or 12, and oh my was it a memorable event. I was in the yard with the neighbor kid (the one who always broke your toys within a couple of days of you getting them) and we were having a dispute – I reached for the nearest thing to throw at his head. My mom witnessed this and yelled out the window “don’t throw…” just as an old pan left my hand. She stormed out the back door to correct my improper behavior, but I wasn’t in the mood to be disciplined. So I ran back into the house, slamming the door – the 5 pane glass door – behind me, shattering most of the glass. My mom would swear for the rest of her life that she didn’t bother to open the door as she came after me. So she grabbed me, threw me over her knee and started waling on my ass, screaming at the top of her lungs “you’ve got to learn to control your temper”.
It didn’t take her too long to realize just how brilliantly she had demonstrated my own failing. Dad had nothing to add when he got home, and heard the whole story.
Awesome!
A tough survey in retrospect
My parents rarely or never got angry with each other or us kids, everything seemed always to be calm, even though money was always short. They were easy going, hard working, gave us lots of roaming room.
My mother probably worried as much as any mother but didn’t show it. Infallibility, I never thought about that since the boundaries were wide but fairly well established. When the time came we were allowed to make our own mistakes and suffer the consequences.
We could disagree but always had to show respect. I wish they were still alive so they could be proud of how us kids turned out.
My paternal Grandparents were much like that. They basically raised us. Grandpa was quite the firebrand in his youth but by that time he was pretty cool unless you sat in “his chair”.
With his chair, your grandpa was an archetype of that now-disappearing generation personified by Archie Bunker.
Mother used to call him “Archie Bunker” disparagingly. He wore it as a badge of honor.
I chose my parents well. While not infallible, they are pretty good. I don’t know when I discovered they were fallible. It probably happened over time. But since on the whole I don’t have any complaints about them, I’ve never really dwelt on their fallibility.
Well, they had the sex once…
My parents are still alive and have been married 64 years. The are both very capable people. Dad’s a marine. Very judgmental with a quick temper, but was never abusive.
I grew up liking my parents. I still like them.
I knew early on they made mistakes, but that never lead me to doubt them.
“Portland Antifa tried to illegally assemble last night, only to find themselves immediately ambushed by police.
Turns out Antifa journalist @_FreeFreako
was mad that the event was organized by white people, and leaked the plans out of spite.
More than a dozen were arrested.”
https://twitter.com/VitoGesualdi/status/1315213501007192064
LOLOLOL
The more that I think about it. The moment I realized my mother wasn’t infallible was when she revealed that she made Hamburger Helper once a week, not because she was too busy and it was a quick meal, but because she actually liked it. She may as well have told me she likes pineapple on her pizza.
All kidding aside I was fortunate to have decent parents. My dad told me some time in early high school that I have the opportunity to do better than him in life. I think that was his way of saying he wasn’t perfect. Also when I went off to college he said I know you’re going to party, drink and do drugs, just don’t do coke. Guessing that was coming from a personal experience.
Like Count Potato it was about age 4 for the same reasons. And about that time I remember my mom being incredibly nasty to me almost every day of my life. My dad and I got along well, mom seemed ashamed of my existence. It’s probably only in the last 7-8 years she has been kind and considerate rather than condescending and insulting to me. In truth I think it was one of her friends that finally had the nerve to tell her that made her do some soul searching.
About a year before he passed my dad apologized to me and said he should have put his foot down about my mom’s treatment of me. He said he tried before but she must have changed her behavior when he was around and saved her nastiness for when he was at work or otherwise occupied or he just didn’t want to believe it. I had several health problems as a child and had a couple surgeries before I was 6. I think that put a major strain on their finances. Moms dad helped cover some of it but he passed before I was 7. I think they had to sacrifice a lot to keep me alive and mom sort of resented it.
That sucks.
OT. A nice little tribute and trip down memory lane from Tal Bachman.
One again RIP Edward Van Halen.
https://www.steynonline.com/10682/tal-bachman-three-weeks-in-86
Wow.
Thanks, TG. Great article about one of my heroes.
+1 -Loved this little bit of analysis:
My mom? 22 when she flipped out on my randomly because my fiancé and I were kind of obviously involved sektually. I found out later she had done the same with my sisters but at younger ages. My dad? I’m 46 and he’s 73 and I’m not actually sure he’s fallible. I mean, I know logically that he is, but I still don’t know where, he is a better person than me in every single way. They really are great people, kind, generous, solid. My mom has some issues but they don’t overshadow the greatness. It makes it hard because I am an obviously flawed person, prone to public and private failure, and they just aren’t.
I was a little over 7 years old when I realized Santa was not real, and then the fact it still happened, made me understand it was something my parents did. The fact we still got Christmas presents when I knew there was no Santa, quickly made me realize my parents also had no clue. So it was at least 5 more years before they caught on that I already knew, but they lept doing it for another 3 years because of my youngest brother.
You stopped getting presents after you found out? That sucks.
*after your younger siblings
Yeah, when they found out I had told my siblings they got real mad. Killed it for us all. I was 14 then already, but my youngest brother, only 10 was angry he lost out on a few years more of presents. Note that we still got Christmas gifts, but school clothes, books, and every day things don’t sound like a big Christmas gift was all we kept getting for however long they kept that racket going.
Don’t get me wrong. I had incredible parents. My mom was the usual emotional woman that could lose her cool and go bananas, but she took care of us despite having to get 2 kidney transplants to make it to 78 before passing. And my dad could be a hardass, that’s the military for ya, but we never wanted for anything and he made sure we all understood the importance of an education (he paid for my 2 younger brothers, while I chose to go have Uncle Sam pay for mine), hard work, honesty, and honor. I am still trying to live up to the standards he set.
“school clothes, books, and every day things”
Same as the Fourscores but it incentivized me that if I wanted something I had to work and get the luxury goods myself, my folks were providing necessities (and a little more) but that gun I wanted meant a job. It was a good experience, even if I sort of resented it but I knew the money wasn’t really there. Kind of an introduction to reality.
I figured it out at like six or seven when I noticed that Santa signed his packages in my mom’s handwriting.
^^^THIS^^^
My kids are probably older than you and still believe Santa sends their Xmas presents on a small rectangular piece of paper but uses me as a courier because he’s busy.
Mine figured out Santa wasn’t real by the time they were seven or eight, but it was because – since I felt guilty for lying at all – I told them increasingly outlandish lies to cover why the children couldn’t go into the room where we were gathering presents. At one point, I told them I’d kidnapped some of Santa’s elves and was forcing them to build toys out in the garage, so they couldn’t go out to look, or the elves would believe I wouldn’t keep my promise and return them when they were done because we had witnesses. That was the lie that finally made my son ask, “Mom, are you lying to us?!” And the magic ended.
I heart you, LemonGrenade!
Hah. My wife was always careful about that with our kids. She also used a different wrapping paper for Santa and stocking gifts, that we kept hidden and then threw away after Christmas every year.
That’d give me pause that she’s so good at subterfuge 😉
My parents nor I ever wrapped Santa gifts or stocking stuffers. They were set out in a nice display in your designated spot.
My daughter was 7 when she found out. She was throwing a fit about somethingI wasn’t going to get for her and she said, “Fine! Santa will!”
Oh honey.
“Let me tell you something. *I* am Santa. *I* buy those presents and put them out. Wanna go a round with Santa?”
To this day she still wants her gifts delivered from Santa.
It’s also entirely possible that I learned about “Santa” in one of my mom’s paperbacks she had no problem with me reading – Stephen King, Dean Koontz, and whatnot.
Yeah. We were the oldest of about twenty cousins (and counting) so we had to keep it up for years after realizing the truth.
I was 7 when I found out too. I woke up with a blistering headache, and went to tell my parents. When I walked by the living room I saw the stockings filled and presents out, suddenly remembered it was Christmas Eve, and ran back to bed. The next day I was like, “wait a minute… of course!”
I didn’t tell my parents I knew. Didn’t want to ruin it for them.
That’s awesome, Fatty
Yas.
Well our son figured it out pretty easily . It was January and my spouse was showing something to our son on Amazon. He did not think about how Amazon, of course, wants to sell you what you just bought, so right there, on the screen, “MINIATURE DRONE” exactly like the one Santa got the kiddo. Who asked “uh why is Santa’s gift to me right there?” Realizing his goose was cooked, Mr Athena then awkwardly tried to spin some story about how Santa had told him to get it, and it was obviously made up on the spot. And meanwhile I’m in the other corner trying to signal him to stfu because he was making it worse, while laughing my ass off.
So, that was the day, XY discovered his parents were quite fallible. lol
I consider my mom to be one of my best friends. It was a rough road getting here and occasionally we still revert to mom-daughter screaming matches, but she is there for me no matter what and I spend nights in the hospital with her and do things for her physically that her sisters (who live with her) can’t do.
My Dad was Class President in high school, Captain of the basketball, softball and volleyball teams, first in his class at the Naval academy and winner of the medium-weight boxing title. He knocked up a 14 year-old feather Indian and just gave up. I remember golfing with him when I was 20 or so and he kicked my ass. He could have been a remarkable man.
As it turned out, son, you are a remarkable man. All of us here are proud of you and each other, that we figured out the government was not our friend. Happy that SP and all TPTB have provided us with a place that we talk vicariously to similar beings.
Couldn’t say it better.
You’re a fantastic role model, Fourscore.
Thank You, Fourscore. I think it got a little bit dusty in here just now. He died two years ago this coming Tuesday.
My parents were great, but I mostly always thought of them just as other people. They separated when I was 11, but had been unhappy for several years before that. Finally divorced when I was 17. However, they were always perfectly civil and even friendly to each other. Which really, they needed to be, both being on the faculty at the same university in the same very small town.
Dad stopped at the house every day after work to see us and help with any math homework…for the entire time any of us kids still lived at home. And he made sure to take each of us on individual vacations and day outings so we all got time alone with him. Dad and I are still very close. (Of COURSE I’m the favorite, why would you ever think otherwise?!) I’m lucky to still have him at 86.
My Mom died 6 years ago now. It still guts me.
It was my paternal grandparents that I believed infallible. Until I got to be a teenager and my grandmother and I had many conversations about life. Many of the life skills I have, I learned from them. They’ve been gone a long time now and it’s still hard. But I use various kitchenware and tools that belonged to them.
Remember the good times, SP.
My maternal grandparents were that until my mom went nuts. Watching them do the exact wrong thing over and over and over, ignoring my earnest pleading to get her off of the cornucopia of pills, and stashing her in the back room while collecting her disability check soiled the relationship.
Then, as we were beginning to mend after my mom got better, they didn’t bother to tell me that my great aunt (who I was really close with) had died. I found out 6 months later when chatting with my aunt.
It’s complicated to strive to be like my grandparents in some ways when I have very little respect for them as people.
I’m glad for you. Very few of my people in similar circumstances can say the same.
I hope mom is at peace and dad lives well as long as he wishes.
Interesting thought about seeing grandparents as infallible. My maternal grandfather was the first to go (when I was 18), and I still hold him as the most infallible. Then, my paternal grandmother (in my 30’s). I see her as the second most infallible.
I’m fortunate, at 45, to have 2 grandparents still alive, though I’m aware now of some of their faults. My grandfather is a legend, however. 95 years old. Probably should have already died many times over from alcoholism, hunting mishaps, snowmobile accidents, etc.
Right on. I lost my mom at 39, never met my dad after age 3 (though I do know he was gone by my mid-30s), and my grandparents were all long gone by then. My grandma housed my mom and us 4 kids after the divorce for a couple years so I do have very fond memories of her but no one else of that generation.
I always considered my maternal grandmother a saint. Church lady. Taught Sunday school. Played the organ (DON’T) at services. Always thought of my grandfather as a shitbag. Bartender. Sullen. Lazy…
So, a couple years ago, my uncle told me a story. Grandma and Grandpa used to go out, get drunk and kick their heels up. THEN, one day, a traveling religious nut came to the door and Grandma let him in. She found the Lord and Grandpa lost the love of his life.
Kinda changed my perception of reality.
I’m seeing last week being described as “Hell Week” for Trump, What are your thoughts? past the point of no return?
I think that Biden refusing to state his opinion on packing the Court is an opening for Trump. Played correctly, this could be a club to beat Biden with. I don’t know that Trump will play it correctly. Maybe his handlers will?
Aye, there’s the rub.
We can back seat drive Trump’s campaign, but there is no denying the guy has some sort of savant like political intuition.
I don’t like him but hopes he pulls it out. Harris scares me and I believe she will take the wheel during Biden’s first term.
I think Trump has alienated a lot of women. I’m including those in demographics that would otherwise vote for him.
Of course, I thought he would lose last time so what do I know.
Akshully….it was four years ago. Never realized how judgmental my old man was. Always worshiped him. While he was visiting, it dawned on me that he alienates anyone who doesn’t completely agree with him. Which explains why he no longer associates with any of his old friends.
Was kind of a hard pill to swallow, but there it was.
So, I was 51
Ugh.
Sorry dude.
https://youtu.be/Q_qxxgCTgJw
Too late. Well into adulthood.
What crystallized it for me was when my Dad and I were out in the small town of his youth and he was going to buy a rifle of some description for another. He asked me if I had $100 on me. Which, I did, but I asked why? He told me because he only had a bank card from Bank X and there weren’t any of them in this town. I said, “Uh, you know, you can use your bank’s card in any other bank’s machine and it’ll cost you, like, a buck fifty?”.
Throughout my adulthood, I’ve realized that most of the advice that my parents have given me was wrong. Not on purpose. They were trying. Just wrong. I still cringe at some of the things that I have done on their advice.
My dad got his first bank card within the last year. I’m not kidding at all. I think he still doesn’t use ATMs but they finally required him to use a card inside his branch. It’s not like he’s a small town guy either, he lives in the Toronto suburbs. I don’t even know what else to say about it, it’s complete fucking insanity.
Results of my experiment with fridge pickles – My first mistake was forgetting fresh mushrooms float, so I didn’t pack the jar tightly enough and som decided to float above the liquid. These decieved me when I opened the jar, because they were short on flavor. The mushooms which stayed fully submerged in the pickling brine were little vingear bombs, because their porous structure soaked up the liquid, along with the herb flavor. I don’t think these will last long enough to bother with sanitizing or sterlizing the jars.
Dawning realization. But, it was inverse with my father. As I started to realize that he was a human, I was slowly realizing that he was one of the smartest people I had ever met.
Growing up as a faculty brat is weird.
My parents were Ward and June Cleaver, if you can imagine them as Bohemian artists. So they never pretended to be infallible and I never thought of them that way. I just thought they were remarkably kind, patient, and super intelligent.
I lost my father about 35 years ago, but at least he got to see me finish my post-doc and start my research career. Mom… well, that’s a story oft-told here.
Mmmmm… Publix roast chicken.
Dawning realization over time, but likely (?) before adulthood.
It’s more difficult to look back with any certainty regarding Mom, after her passing 5 years ago at a relatively young 64. That kind of shades everything and makes it easier to overlook her faults.
It has also made me see that since mom is gone and dad has remarried, that all those years thinking that dad was the hardnose, decisive, strict, and the one that kept things together as wrong. Especially since his new wife is a sociopath who hates all of us, including mom.
I think the greatest change has been, though, how lucky I am to be here, being a sixth child. I’m a father of 4 (10-2) and my wife and I joke frequently about a writing a parenting book called “Stop at 3!”
Grew up in the 70’s and mom had the lead based finger nail paint. Freddy long. She’d dig those fuckers into my arm, leaving half moon indentations that’d last a week.
No blood? Mother used to whip us with the cord from the coffee perculater. Left welts and drew blood. She hated us because we shattered her childhood dreams. I’d be pissed off too if I missed out on the Summer of Love just to change diapers and chase toddlers about in a company town.
Jesus. I never got worse than a richly-deserved spanking. My mom already had three kids by the Summer of Love and I showed up a couple years later.
I coulda been a contender.
Other than Winston’s, whose Glib mom you wanna do based on the descriptions above?
June Cleaver for sure, in heels and with the pearls.
“Take off the pearls, June there’s more incoming!”
I wanna do Eleanor Roosevelt because she’ll lie there stiff as a board whilst I get some rest. So far as present company? Rhwyun’s Mom seems a goer, might even give my Mother a run for the money!
Nudge, nudge!
Wink, wink!
*rub, rub*
From the sounds of things, I’m one of the few “normal” people around here. Mom and Dad were in a loving relationship for 63 years until his death. I can’t remember a single argument (much less a knock-down, drag-out). I recall a few times that Dad was curt but usually it was because he had a hard day.
Infallible? Dad was the Erasmus Darwin of his time. There was nothing that he tried to do that we wasn’t at least moderately successful at. He was a master mechanic, a decent carpenter, woodworker, metallurgist. One Christmas digital clocks were the “new thing”. Dad told me, “you know, I wrote the program for that clock.” I’m like, yeah, sure. I’ve since found out that he *did* write that program while working for Sandia Labs in the 60’s. Everything done for the Labs is public property and the Phd that he was working for took all of the credit but he did it. He decided in his 50’s to take up painting. Every single picture he did was frame-able, no practice shots. Shots? He took a deer every year for 33 years in a row, most of them heart shots. He once took an antelope at about 800 yards with a 7mm Mauser. Thru the heart, of course.
I’m pissed because I inherited none of his talents. I can picture how a project will be, step by step, in my mind but in practice everything turns out like Homer Simpson’s fireplace.
#Metoo. My dad had two secretaries but I can still remember him pounding away on a typewriter “now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country because he wanted to learn to type to communicate more clearly and he could see computers coming. He helped me tear to roof off a barn when he was already retired and when I got down that day I could hardly move. He’s in a club that multiple former governors are in. i work in a cube and am not even management.
The low divorce rate is one of the major reasons I moved here. It takes the rough edges off people instead of sharpening the hell out of people who were a little screwy to begin with.
I’m pretty old but I don’t remember that many divorced couples growing up. Something happened in the late 80’s that led to the Wammen’s Movement. I blame it all on Ani Difranco.
Birth control and the very favorable treatment of women in divorce court. Two things off the top of my head.
My mom divorced in ’72 or ’73 and for a long time it seemed like I was alone in that respect but yeah not for long.
LOL Buffalo’s own. You leave her alone!
Little Plastic Castle is a great tune.
Heh. I’ve been a fan for 27 years. Ever since little cousin of my ex came home from uni with blue hair, lesbianism and a cassette tape. https://youtu.be/i9UFw0K0lF4
This tune is even better – https://youtu.be/oAdA_ilVLIM
No fault divorce is probably a huge factor. It removed the stigma and culturally accepted that there were marriages that needed to be disolved.
They really need to remove that “Til death do us part” bullshit if you just “grew apart”. Change it to, “til I don’t want be with you anymore”.
Now it’s no fault shacking up. Don’t even have to bother with the court appearance, let alone before God and a community.
Whatever you went through, remember the Whitakers.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nkGiFpJC9LM
Good lord. I want to go throw myself in the river after viewing that.
I’m not real sure when, but in regards to my father it happened at a much earlier age. He was basically a good guy, but such a bull-shitter it was funny at times. He had an interesting life but still had the need to embellish the He’ll out of it. My mother was a very kind and generous person, always optimistic and cheerful. She absolutely hated gossip, I rarely heard her saw anything negative about anyone. For the longest time I thought she was an angel, so it was a bit disappointing to find out she was indeed human, which didn’t happen until I was an adult. I still feel lucky to have had them as parents, both gone now.
Bullshitters come in two types: ones that do it to make the listener enjoy and ones that do it to make themselves look better. My brother is the former.
Your brother sounds like a great guy to drink with and a poor choice to do business with.
We talk two, three times a week for an hour or so at a pop. Good guy. The only brother I keep in touch with. The sisters I’ve completely cut out of my life. Pure poison.
For me it was realizing that they were not my ethical equals. That’s a hard shot to take when you can’t even grow a pube. That’s when I realized that I was on my own.
What the fuck is so hard about doing the right thing?
White wedding dresses are a joke. They should be cream.
Many turn colors, as I’ve been lead to believe.
Sorry–they get turned different colors. Usually a slightly lighter, sometimes darker, shade of the original.
My Dad was a quiet, unassuming person of relatively high intellect. Modest to a fault – I never knew how highly educated he was until I happened to see him being interviewed on TV (he never said anything about that- it would sound like bragging) and the caption said “Dr. Tejicano”.
At his eulogy one of my step-brothers said he was the nicest person he had ever known – I had never thought of it that way but it was true.
AA man of few words, he rarely raised his voice at me. His calm, thoughtful manner guided me to follow his example as a good, loving son. I was lucky to have him as my father.
My Mother, well, she was problematic. Passive-aggressive, it took me until I was a fully grown adult to recognize that she had deep issues dealing with male sexuality. She was a very beautiful woman and I suppose that was something she didn’t know how to handle – how that created a dynamic with men which she couldn’t handle. Me, being her son, created a difficult situation. Eventually I had to cut off contact with her. I got tired of all the mind games.
It’s amazing how many chicks are passive-aggressive. My wife pulled it last night, but to her credit she recognized it when I pointed it out.
It’s amazing to me how many of us on this site have built a shield wall against our next of kin.
If you’re a manipulative cunte, you’re gonna love big govt.
We just want to take over the world and leave everyone the fuck alone. Is that so hard to understand?
Ugh….that incompatible duality and projection you see with leftist–libertarian types are so naïve, thinking you can just do hands-off governing. But, they totally support tyrants and dictators!
Friggin’ miss me with that bullshit, ya helicopter-bait.
I dunno if I ever thought of my mom as “infallible”. She apologized enough over the years for various things, and I saw enough actions that I don’t think that idea ever broached my mind.
If you are asking when, if ever, do you recall a paradigm shift happening with your parents, it would probably be sometime in my tween/teen years, when she said that she never wanted kids, and that I was my dad’s idea/hope/whatever. She agreed, and then, he dies juuuust about 4 years later. But, she did her best, and what she thought was right (for the most part).
She also said I was a “son of a bitch” during one argument, to which I said, “Yep”.
She never did take care of herself, or, save $ for retirement, choosing to let the Government do so. Now, she’s paying the price for both decisions.
Yikes. Sounds like some rotten things to say to a kid.
I feel sorry for people like that; they will never be happy, due to cancerous thinking that flavors all experiences. So negative.
Sorry you had to go through that.
Yep.
Oh, she has a fine sense of humor, and loves to laugh (we still laugh at many of the same things). It’s just her anger and resentment. I guess getting punched in the face, as a grown woman, by your own father, can have that effect.
Glad I never met the asshole, I can tell you that.
Her telling me about the not wanting kids thing was a moment of candor for her, so I could understand the dynamic a little better–it wasn’t said in anger or malice, in the slightest. That didn’t stop it from burning into my brain, though.
But, thanks to you/y’all for the feels.
Sorry, Bud! My mom called me a “Little Bastard” when I was 14 or so but seeing as I am a smaller clone of my Father I didn’t take it literally.
“Accident” was a favorite of hers.
Ah–a fan of the classics, was she?
Interesting to see such a good bloke as yourself coming from such toxic family. But, good on ya for perservering.
An ode to the family here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJJyJ2pZqkY
Member when the Beatles were on Ed Sullivan? Guess what happened some months later…
Uh-huh….
Wait–is your name “Ringo”?
She liked Paul. A lot. I did the math.
:checks music list::
http://gph.is/15xZ8qn
Happened gradually. Noticed logical fallacies.
I was observant enough to know that I had two parents who had their act together (mostly). Dad wasn’t that openly affectionate but we always felt safe with him around and “in charge.”
Mom talked a great deal to us about faith and the Bible, but it was Dad who brought us to church.
At the time, I probably identified with Mom more but in retrospect it was Dad who was far more reasonable.
We weren’t raised in Faith. Cynical from the womb. Sceptics born and bred.
We didn’t go often. A few times a year? Dad didn’t do his charity ostentatiously—volunteer work with Kiwanis, unofficially helping many a guy fix a car, stuff I’ll never know.
I remember when he worked Kiwanis Christmas tree lot, he was wrapping up for the night, throwing out broken limbs, and he happened to heave a perfectly good small tree over the fence. There were a little Mexican girl and boy, who grabbed the tree and went running off with it.
The fact that they knew to wait there made me think it wasn’t a one time deal.
Dad also taught me firearm safety and use. He tried with my sister, but she was more girly and I was not.
Your Dad sounds like a human person, Hayek. I’ve been ragging on my parents tonight but I never lived for a moment in their skin. I know for sure that I wouldn’t beat my kids no matter what and I certainly wouldn’t abandon one of them across town. I’m not sure that I would have the patience to teach toddlers how to read and write the way that my mother and father did.
? I just….is everything she wears pink? ‘Cause, I’m having a ha-…difficult time with that concept.
Not everything she wears is pink, but that’s pretty close. We are only 2 years apart so we really grew up together but she always wanted to play with baby dolls and I just didn’t care for it. If she and another girl had their dolls, I had a stuffed cat or pretended I was something else but did not want to play “mom”.
And I liked the outdoors and nature/science and didn’t mind getting dirty. So I went fishing and helped with cars, chopped ice, and rode horses etc.
To this day she keeps up on fashion and celebrity gossip. Two very different people.
And, now–you can build her a robo-Barbie to put all the old ones to shame. ??
OK; maybe an electrified Barbie–you get my drift.
No Digby, she won’t build you a sex robot.
The responses tonight remind me of when I got to college and really learned that not everyone had the idyllic childhood I did. And yet, somehow, people mostly turn out to be good people. It’s amazing really.
Yes it is. I genuinely wonder how it happens as often as it does.
Maybe ours were idyllic and you are the odd ball we are thinking it was interesting you turned out alright?
No idea
No idea
No
No
Good morning, Pie.
good mornin
https://archive.li/EtOIe/3b75237b10765a9de579998ffa671bda2dd76cde.webp
Because.
It took me a minute to realize this, but, I have one of those Paulaner mugs!
/what?? They’re right there….by them.
Also: Howdy, Q!
Awww, Q missed us!
I did miss you.
No tricks.
No baby yet.
I will return full time soon.
<3
Bring some nude pics wgen you do. Athletic types preferred. ?
No, we want baby pics!!!
Good luck with the baby arrival. Especially to Mrs Q! 😉
Q! Welcome back! How’s tricks?
Look who is back! How is your baby?
Q drive by. Thx.
Maybe this can be filed under strange family? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-FMq0xHTaY
TIL that Russian cops don’t keep a round chambered. And, seem to be petty bad shots.
I’m not sure why they shot him when they did. Earlier would have made more sense. I have a feeling the answer is because they’re Russian.
Here is why cops need to carry guns.
https://youtu.be/RYlUxvj_uD8
I think they were hoping to talk him out of whatever (seems they were in the middle of something else) so they could get on with whatever. And/or, they knew the guy and figured he was harmless.
I also think there was a feeling of wanting to give him the biggest benefit of a doubt they could, which was pointless.
I did the best I could!
That’s what she said. Wait… that’s not right.
Wow, a lot of honest and tough responses from the Glibs for this question. I’m sorry that many of you had pretty rough childhoods. I consider mine a pretty happy one, but my parents were far from infallible, I knew that by age 7 or so. My dad was left in an Irish orphanage at three days of age and at age five was taken out of that brutal situation (and he did say it was very much that) by a farm family that needed a worker kid. He left there at 16 and worked his way around the country for three years to save up enough to come to the US. As the oldest of six kids I got more than a fair share of belts by him, usually from something fairly minor. My parents were both super busy when I was a kid as they were running their own business, and I was the last generation to get that type of parenting that is mostly the opposite of helicopter parents. We were often left to our own devices for many hours at young ages. By ten I had a part time job and always had one since. They were good parents, despite their flaws and mellowed much with age.
FFS.
Eskimo Pie is now Edy’s Pie.
“I want an Edy’s pie, please!” Said no child ever.
When did protecting child ears from hearing politically incorrect terms become the number one job of parenting?
When “parent” became a verb?
I blame Spock.
I wouldn’t care so much if all this crap was an organic cultural shift. Times change. Fine. It isn’t, however, and reeks of the intelligentsia forcing it’s psychosis onto the inferiors. Not a fan of Pol Pot, but slaughtering the elites isn’t always such a bad idea.
^this^
Edy’s pie sounds…..well. Kinda hoping I never hear a child say that.
Well, it is fake Thanksgiving up here so I’m off to eat some turkey (yuck) and trimmings that were cast off from the family gathering. Happy Columbus Day, Slavers!
Happy Thanksgiving, Festus!
You may not be a radical, but the solutions needed require you to become one.
Me personally? OK!
Standing on principle during a tectonic shift does not put you at fault.
Radical non-coercion, NOW!!
Why didn’t da Jews fight back (willfully ignorant of Warsaw)? People don’t do what is necessary because they still have pancake mix in the cupboard.
Rocking the boat isn’t just for a catchy soul song. We are removed enough from the great depression that many people simply think the bottom can’t/won’t fall out from under everyone. And, I would venture that most people are risk-averse.
Bystander effect.
This is true. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve taken calls (esp when working for a city PD) where people don’t call for police help when it’s obviously a crime with people in danger, but you can’t get through all the calls for something like a car on fire. Both require some sort of help, but, people are far less unwilling to get involved in person-on-person violence issues.
See a stranger on the street and realize my ability to visualize them naked is woefully underdeveloped.
Given hindsight, it’s undeniable that Archie won far more fights with Meathead than he’s given credit for.
Who ended up with Gloria? Archie…well, until she got back on her feet, so to speak. Just imagine how much more of an insufferable prick Mike became, as he got older–after living with Archie.
Well, I guess you can sorta see it with Rob IRL.
As I remember, Archie wiped the floor with Meathead.
Meathead was supposed to be cringy. Yet, Mike never realized that?
What better way to celebrate Indigenous Peoples’ Day with acts of barbarism and savagery?
https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2020/10/protesters-topple-portland-statues-of-theodore-roosevelt-abraham-lincoln-in-day-of-rage.html
We really do need another Vietnam, to thin out there ranks a bit. Let ’em go burn off some of that aggression on a (foreign) battlefield.
/kidding…sort of.
Doesn’t it occur to these educated protesters that their movement destroys things but doesn’t build anything?
“Oh, we can build! We build communities, and government that gives us what we
wantneed! But you have to tear down the oppressive inanimate objects, in order to have a more fair commune…ity. Community.”/I’m starting to scare myself, so I’ll stop here.
They don’t have any experience with building anything and just assume the things and systems that will be required will just evolve out of thin air.
well, it does take 5 years, it’s a Plan you know,
Godd Morning!
I saw the garden in Seattle, they can build. **snert**
This. They just want to be in charge. They know nothing about how things actually work.
You’ve got all these twenty something dipshits running for office with no idea how the world works having never held a real job and their minds polluted by activist professors.
Late to the party:
I am 51 and probably still not there. I realize in my head they are fallible, and can name examples, but I havent incorporated into my being.
On the other hand, my 4th grade principal may have set me on a lifetime path of anti-authority. Thanks, asshole!
Also, in what is some bad foreshadowing for a decade from now, whenever my wife and I argue with my daughter around, my 4 year old agrees with me and tells my wife this. YOU ARE NOT HELPING THE CAUSE!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VGvHnDeS12o
?
Morning Glibs.
Mornin
Mornin’.
So how is everyone in their respective corners of the world? I’m arguing with my email.
I just got home from work, so Im quite tired and enjoying the 07.30h beer.
Today is a state holiday – so I have a dentist appointment.
I wonder if they’re going to tell me I have to wear a mask, even though it’s completely pointless during a cleaning.
Damp
It’s been raining for three days.
Pushing files out to our automation system using procedures written for two separate types of boxes. Thats how my slice of the world is going.
Did I write that system? I’ve written/rewritten a lot of file transfer automation systems.
mornin’
https://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/eminem-fan-scotland-tattoos-guinness-record
That’s a lot of crazy right there.
Yes, yes it is
Knew my parents were fallible very early on. Dad split around my first birthday, once I was old enough to realize I was the only kid without a dad it was pretty clear. Or maybe it was when, at age 5, mom sent me to live with the aunt and uncle for 2 years. Turns out mom had gone off to Alabama to get a divorce from the absentee dad, but I did not know that then. Fallible? Sure, but eventually I made peace with it. We are all flawed.