What Does It Mean to Be A Country?
There were two conversations I had here a few months ago that have been ricocheting around in my brain ever since. One was about being proud of our country, the USA, and the other was about some Ukrainians being cowards for trying to avoid conscription.
The point most frequently mentioned was that a country is more than the government that runs it. This is a very abstract notion that I think is worthy of throwing out there for a dedicated discussion. If a country isn’t an artifact defined by the territorial borders imposed by the government that controls it, then how do you define a country? A shared language? A shared culture? A shared race or ethnicity? A shared religion? Other shared belief systems?
I think the answer is probably some sort of murky combination of all of the above that varies from country to country. The heterogenous melting pot composition of America makes it especially prone to fracture, but the citizens were more or less united behind the beliefs of freedom, individuality, hard work, generosity, and an entrepreneurial/grit/frontier type spirit. I think these beliefs are what Americans generally mean when they say we’re proud of America.
Although these beliefs certainly do still prevail in discrete segments of the country, I just don’t see these beliefs as a part of America the country anymore. Do you still see that looking at the overall picture? We can point the finger at the government as the bad guy, but, at the end of the day, a significant part of America’s citizenry does not belief in freedom, independence, or entrepreneurism. The enthusiastic support for lockdowns, mandatory masking, and vaccine requirements put an end to any lingering debate about that. At least in my mind.
This doesn’t mean that I can’t be proud of my community. The businesses around me who risked their licenses by refusing to post mask signs or force employees to wear masks made me proud. The neighbors who help one another when tragedy strikes. I’d have many armed neighbors at my home, risking their lives with nothing asked in return, if trouble hit my family. And I for them. But these are the beliefs and culture that my community generally values. Many, many other communities in America find these beliefs repugnant. And they would be as out of place living here in my community, as I would be in their communities. The beliefs that form the American dream aren’t dead, per se, but I can no longer get behind the notion that these beliefs are an intrinsic part of modern-day America… this country is not a unified country with widely shared values, culture, and beliefs.
So I’ll ask again, what does it mean to be a country? What does Alabama have in common with New York or Washington besides the shared federal government? If you remove government from the definition of a country, what is left in common between the citizens of these regions? For a thought experiment, let’s say you had the omnipotent power to grant the people of each area of America the self-determination to choose remaining as part of the US, starting their own sovereign nation, or joining with other areas in starting new nations. If being a country is more than the government that controls it, then let’s remove any government-related concerns about national debt or splitting up the existing military … just use whatever factors you believe are important in determining what it means to be a country. How many different new nations would we be counting? Or do you think the shared beliefs/culture are strong enough that one country, the United States of America, would still emerge?
I’ll end this with the Ukraine conversation and the young men trying to escape conscription, but the Ukraine backdrop doesn’t really matter. I thought it would be interesting to apply this scenario to the United States as the basis for another thought experiment. How many of us would leave our families and homes to go fight for DC if the capitol was facing invasion? Do you really feel that strongly about protecting a government that hates you and wants you dead? I’ll be forthright in saying that I wouldn’t leave my community to defend the Bay Area, NYC, Chicago, or Baltimore if these regions were invaded by a hostile nation. These places might as well be hostile foreign nations themselves to people who share my values and belief systems (with apologies to the Glibs who live there). And I don’t mean that hyperbolically… Maryland actively seeks out Virginia gun owners who cross the state line for arrest and imprisonment.
The residents of my community have more in common with a Peruvian llama rancher living in the Andes than they do with the typical Bay Area resident. I would not allow myself or my children to be conscripted to defend California. But neither would I expect Bay Area technocrats to defend my community 3,000 miles away. I would take up arms without hesitation to defend my family, my home, my neighbors, and my community. Is that position cowardly? I do not feel that my community is the same as my country. At least not any longer.
What do you think it means to be a country, and do the people and regions that make up the United States still collectively fulfill that definition?
Excellent article!
I regret that I’m falling asleep; my thinking hours are behind me. I look forward to catching up tomorrow morning.
Thanks SK.
I think community is key. We are a grouping of states, which should have had a weak central government. People move to the states, or communities they choose and this is our strength. That is how Texas is different from Oklahoma, or Louisiana, or more radically, California. We are mini-countries bound by a common framework.
Now when the mini-country where we store our mental patients tries to dictate to the other states, problems arise….
We are mini-countries bound by a common framework.
Progs hate that. “Votes for land” is one of their grievances, and by that they mean that it’s tOtAlLy uNfAiR that those 576,850 people in Wyoming get two votes in the US Senate, and that the 20,215,751 people in New York only get the same number of votes in the Senate.
I would point out that each mini-country has the same issues as the big country.
Most of them have just as big a diversity of opinion within, as the nation at large. MA, CT, and RI may be exceptions.
Even Mass and CT have the same rural-urban divide. RI I am less sure.
I agree community is key. So what is the common framework other than government linking our mini-countries/states together into one country?
It sounds like those mini-countries/states could become their own countries or combine with other like-minded minicountries/states into new larger countries. People could still emigrate from Texas to CA if they chose too.
Seems you could have said the same thing at any point in our history.
The residents of Alaska were Russian, then Seward came along, bought the whole shebang, then they were American.
I’m going to go with culture, belief system, and language.
This gentlemen gets it….
I’d agree with that as a definition of a country beyond the government. Do you think the residents and regions of the United States still share a similar culture and belief system?
On a micro level, or on a macro level? Micro, no, never. Macro, yes, but it is getting shop worn at this point.
Yes. But I still say that has become more distinct along state lines as interstate travel has become common. The difference in cultures is more profound and breaks out along city/country divides in each state.
Que pasa?
Yes. I’d say up until WWI, maybe even WWII, there were lots of pockets of America that did not speak English.
I think you’re shortchanging the (admittedly becoming more vestigial) commonality that all Americans still share. I’m comfortable in any part of the US in a way that I am not when I am abroad.
You’re highlighting the urban-rural divide more than anything else – a common theme around here.
Fair point. I’ll admit to being more comfortable in rural than urban areas. What commonality do all Americans still share?
I’m a city boy who relocated to the suburbs, and always thought living in the sticks would be odd, I like being around people.
And yet, I am now surrounded by people I never interact with. Suburbia is weird, there is no concept of community here, it all seems very superficial. Maybe it’s me, I dunno.
I am still a city boy and I like that my neighbors aren’t all in my shit and vice versa. But I am friendly with many of them and would defend them if it came to that. Like, in situations I shudder to think about.
One of the things my MIL hated when living in the county or in a small rural community was that everyone knew your business. And wasn’t afraid to give you shit about it.
Meh, I just don’t talk to anybody and it all works out.
That’s why I have great neighbors
Yes. That would not be pleasant, either.
It’s pretty small and rural out where I live, but I’ve made almost no connections in almost 9 years of living here. It’s not that difficult if you’re asocial. A couple of weeks ago I was out in my yard pulling weeds and some lady passed by walking her dog and said “Oh, hi! I didn’t think anybody lived here.”
My neighbor was one of my best friends in high school. We wave when we pass each other on the road or say ‘hey’ when we see each other in the store. That’s it. Nice and quiet.
It’s not you. You have to make a concerted effort to meet others.
Honestly, my semi-drunken ramblings won’t cut it for a question that deserves serious thought.
I could say “culture” but WTF does that mean, without a book-length expository? It’s one of those “I know it when I see it” things.
There are a lot of lifestyle differences, for sure. And some of them do reflect basic differences – like belief in the right to self-defense versus condemnation of same. And yet… I am somewhat optimistic that the extremes will get smacked down. E.g. recent court rulings against New York’s extreme anti-gun stuff.
Maybe I’m too optimistic… I don’t know.
I’ve been thinking more about your point about being more comfortable anywhere in the US than out of it. Do you think a typical resident from NYC or Portland would be more comfortable visiting Vancouver than visiting a place like Mobile, Alabama? I would think so (being more comfortable in Vancouver) but maybe am mistaken.
That might go back to your urban-rural divide point or to Mo’s point about class divisions. Or more likely that Canada isn’t really a country.
It could vary for certain values of “comfortable”.
Stay a while, and the cultural differences start to sink in.
I have (or had) coworkers in Mobile. I am a New Yorker. I think I’d do just fine in Mobile.
That bleeds into class divisions. Not-icky people versus icky people.
Really, it all boils down to the icky people.
The idea that the globe is now structured under, The Nation State, is an idea that came about after the formation of the United States. At the time the Americans were fighting for independence from Britain countries were simply the areas controlled by a government, usually a monarch. It wasn’t until after the American Revolution that people got the kooky idea that a country should be made of people and not simply the property of a government. This is when you got Italy for the Italians, Germany for the Germans and so forth. The idea of a country is still a new and malleable thing. To the true idealist core, countries shouldn’t exist, just free people able to gambol. But without a state who is to ensure this freedom, and that is the crux on which the true fighting begins.
Now get off my lawn!
To the true idealist core, countries shouldn’t exist, just free people able to gambol. But without a state who is to ensure this freedom, and that is the crux on which the true fighting begins.
Right. This is why I’d consider myself a minarchist and think anarchy is always doomed fail, probably in spectacularly horrible ways.
You’ve hit a sore spot, SSD. Over the past decade or so I have come to realize that I have very little in common with the people I grew up with, went to school with, and a good deal of my extended family. Most are happy to trade their freedom for a handout and by doing so give power to the ones providing those handouts which can only be taken by force from others.
I should have known better, but I was floored by the reaction of my peers to the pandemic. Craven submission to tyranny was not what I expected from a generation which defined itself as anti-war resisters. Turns out the only principle involved then and now was self-preservation.
I conveniently dropped all my social media accounts just before the plague hit so missed out on that fun.
Perhaps the more interesting question is how far up does your notion of community scale? Clearly not to country and I don’t think you could ever say, under normal circumstances, that our country is or ever was one vast community. So, county? State? Region?
Damn thread fail.
It doesn’t seem to scale far. But that may be an illusion. 20% of all people are nutso and have an outsized voice. I believe America in general still shares a great common bond of community. We must ignore the bad voices and see the good.
I’m still floored by the reaction of our fellow citizens. Healthy young adults in their 20s getting boosters. Older ones taking their young children for vaccines. And still wearing masks despite being quadrupled vaxed.
And listening to rock and roll!
People that react to appeals to emotion are easy to control. I am not at all surprised they were scared or virtue signaled into taking a shot they might otherwise never even entertained.
I knew early on, after hearing my older cousin’s stories about the Air Force Academy, that a place like that wasn’t going to work for me. I doff my hat to all the veterans who put up with that bullshit. I REALLY do not like to be yelled at.
I have to ask those veterans, though, if they were really defending America in Iraq or Somalia, or Yemen, or Syria.
Amen.
I absolutely hate to be yelled at. But there is something to be said for learned to let it happen and not get to you…
Basic training is about breaking the individual and building up a team.
Good point Nick. I began to question our involvement in VN on my second tour, when I realized we were busy lying to ourselves, about the mission and the alleged
threat of Communism to the US. Earlier someone mentioned the lies that got us involved in some faraway places, strange sounding names, resulting to death and destruction for all concerned.
I have to ask those veterans, though, if they were really defending America in Iraq or Somalia, or Yemen, or Syria.
It’s a good question. I’d add Korea, Vietnam, and Serbia to the list. And any South American or Central American country infested with DEA and CIA.
Defeating Soviet communism was worth it until I saw ourselves sell out like cheap whores to Chines communism/fascism while the powers that be used conflict to make themselves rich. We will pay for letting the CCP get the best of us.
Those are just the places we bombed in 2022
I joined during the Cold War to defend against the Evil Empire. I left just as the Forever War started and we became the Evil Empire.
I think of this every time someone tells me “At least (random politician they are trying to get me to support) loves America”. What the hell does that even mean, It can’t mean he loves the people, they are far too varied and numerous, same with the land. I find it just as strange when someone professes a love for a state or a city, my town ain’t all that big and there are good parts and bad parts, parts I’ve never been, etc… What it usually boils down to is that the Pol in question loves some abstract idea of America that the supporter has. Which makes it a rather circular thing to say. Person X loves America because “the Real America” is those things that person X loves.
Right. Trying to determine the “more” in ‘A country is more than its government’ led me down this train of thought. I couldn’t figure out what the “more” would be for America. I could come up with generally shared belief systems across smaller regions, not everyone which would be impossible, but widely held at least. But not on a scale the size of the US.
And it probably never can be, in a more-or-less free country of ~330 million.
People love to love where they are from. The idea that somewhere else, while maybe richer, is better creates an unease in many people.
That’s a strange and great question, SSD, to ask a bunch of misfits that share some common beliefs. While I might not go to Chicago I certainly would go to defend a Glib that lived in Chicago (I have family in Waukegan as well) and by doing so would be defending Chicago. Because of our mutual respect and in some ways are a community unto ourselves I think most of us feel the same way. We are all different but still bonded together.
Having spent some uniform time I took an oath, to defend and support the Constitution and all that that encompasses, our country, The country, including the government. If Minnesota was lucky enough to break away I could easily switch my allegiance to this state.
FREE MINNESODA!
I have been to Minneapolis-St. Paul and seen how those people think/behave. You guys are fucked.
FREE NORTHERN MINNESODA!
Lol. Don’t you live in CT?
Minne isn’t monolithic. Neither are the Twin Cities. Tired tropes are tired.
Took the wife for a nice weekend in Portland. Had a great dinner in downtown.
Impossible. You automatically die when you go into the city.
That does bring up virtual community versus meat-space.
Glibs burbclave FTW.
Thanks Fourscore. You and JI hit on an interesting point about this Glibertarian community.
We sometimes get into the weeds arguing about minutia (which I think is healthy because otherwise this place would just be an echo chamber), but I would say that I share more beliefs and culture with this community than any other community. And I’d say I’m more comfortable with Glibs than most anyone else, outside of a few close friends and family members, despite having never met any of you in meatspace. I would defend a Glib too but hope they would choose to bug out instead to one of our rural homesteads if it came down to that.
You asked all the right questions in the article. Well done.
Excellent article.
I have simply accepted that what I love about the USA is just a concept of what could be, but what never was. Since our beginning, we have had the encroachment of government upon us, someone’s need to tell us what to do and not to do. There were no “good ol days.” Maybe the post-war boom, but even then it was only good for a relatively few people.
Ah, but what it COULD have been, except for human nature…
Love the spirt and the potential of the people. Absolutely hate the corrupt government and how they sell the people out to globalism and collectivism (same disease, I know).
I think this is the crux of it. If you ask 80% of the population, they will swear up and down that they love this country for the constitution. Now, trying to get a solid read on what EXATLY it means or reads, therein lies the difference. But, this is what we have a legislature for; it also means that we need to do our part and agitate for freedom and liberty, if these are things we feel are of great importance.
For all the people that love this country the military is having a tough time getting recruits.
Truman, Ike, JFK, LBJ, Tricky Dick, Ford, Carter, Reagan, GBush were all volunteers. I think GWB was a cop out. Some, Clinton, Trump and Biden hid pretty well. Obama gets a pass, no draft during his youth, though I have an opinion as to what he would have done.
I find myself increasingly skeptical that the top brass of the military love this country, all the way up to the (nominal) CiC.
Thanks Mo. I think a lot of American shared the concept of potential, or at least used to share this concept. I mean the pursuit of happiness was enshrined in the Declaration of Independence.
Watched maybe 2 minutes of the PA senatorial debate. What a crock of shit that either of those asshats will win.
I saw the last 10 min. Wow. Even DU is depressed.
When you lost Ducks Unlimited the ball game is over…
I watched none of it. Maybe I’ll look for clips and hot takes later.
They both suck. One sucks more.
I’m going to throw this out there: The last bastion of a large-ish community that we can actually see is sports fandom. Now, it’s all just bread and circuses, but you get a stadium full of 75,000 people rooting for one team, and what you’ve got is the makings of a small community based on a shared culture, value, and language. Of course, you have all those OTHER communities too, but they’re not likely to go to war with each other.
MY community is my church. I don’t have to know a soul in any given geographical area for me to be able to call the bishop and say, “Hey, I need help.” KNOWING you can do that makes you oart of the community.
That’s awesome, TBH.
Something I’ve always admired about Mormonism. Contrast with the church I and my parents attended for ~15 years, 7 of which I was volunteering 10-15 hours a week as an audio and video tech. We had begun attending when the church was a tiny upstart operating out of a rented space at the YMCA and watched it grow to ~4,000 members with a 2 million dollar sanctuary. In addition to mine, my mom’s, and my step-brother’s volunteering, my parents always kicked in a regular tithe and contributed several tens of thousands of dollars over that time period to various special collections, including contributing what ended up being about 15% of the total collection that was raised for the head pastor to thank him for 10 years on the job. When my dad became disabled and lost his business, as an absolute last resort he appealed to one of the pastors for some help with 1 month’s rent to cover the transition to a new place. That resulted in 4 of the senior pastors, including the head pastor, contacting him to let him know that he was not entitled to shit, and proudly explaining that even when one of the senior staff of the church died, leaving behind a widow and children, they didn’t pay any of his bills. The church’s motto was, and remains, “Loving God, Loving People”.
That’s some shit.
That is awful.
Not I.
In answer to the main question, confederation is a better fit for a continent-spanning polity than centralization. If we’d stuck with that model then a lot of these questions would be moot. It’s my personal feeling that the largest political body ought to be a city-state.
Agreed on confederation being a better model. But, even then, look how fast the European Union took over its supposedly sovereign member countries.
I’m not sure I agree on the city-state being largest political body, but I don’t know that I disagree either. That’s an interesting line of thought.
How many of us would leave our families and homes to go fight for DC if the capitol was facing invasion?
I laughed.
No. I would not.
Harsh. Even DC has probably a couple hundred thousand Americans who don’t deserve the results of an invasion.
Nobody i know went to fight for DC. They fought for the people they loved and left behind, and the guy (or these days maybe gal) taking fire next to them.
I figured I knew the majority answer to this one.
Nice job SSD.
‘How many different new nations would we be counting? ‘
330 million give or take.
Thank you.
I was envisioning more a majority vote by region type thing, but that’s a good point if the choice was thrown out like that. I suspect most of those 330 millions would quickly regret not banding with others.
I recall a story of a guy, maybe from Italy, starting his own country on a floating platform in the ocean. He printed his own money, had a flag, and a postage system. He claimed to pay no taxes but admitted to making courtesy payments, nation to nation, to Italy (if this was Italy… maybe UK). Eventually, Italy got tired of the pretense, hauled him away, and blew up the platform.
It was Italy.
Excellent movie about it: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10287954/
The Principality of Sealand predates that one by about a year. When founded, it was outside of Britain’s territorial waters, which allowed the original occupant to avoid firearms charges when he established it as a pirate radio broadcasting site and fired on maintenance workers who approached it. Those two incidents are part of what set the seasteading movement going.
Down with monarchy!
I’ve seen it, it was good.
That fucking movie is in Italian! Are you some kind Neo-Fascist Mussolini lover!?
Right, but you basically say it up at though the resulting entities would not have military problems between them.
Your probably still right, most people couldn’t hack it, and wouldn’t want to. Maybe two to five countries plus however many anarchists there are then. 😛
Good topic. Haven’t thought of it that way specifically, but more on how this shitshow gets fixed. I think you are right that we are not a country anymore. It’s just too big. I think some type of restructuring is the only way to resolve this without a civil war of some sort. Several podcasts recently on this topic. Tom Woods has had several that I’m sure many have heard. Prof CJ on Dangerous History had one discussing classical republicanism. I’d much prefer that to what we have now.
I’m not sure to what extent I’d take up arms. My home of course. But the area where I currently reside (my “community”) is not a place I relate to politically, nor do I have any friends here. Most of the people we associate with for various school sports etc., are not people I like, nor relate to. There are some good folks no doubt, but I’m not much for socializing and I have little time for any personal activities due to kids activities. I live here due to inertia and the fact that my wife won’t leave. I have more association with where I grew up and childhood friends. The reality is, nobody is invading where I live. Center of a continent, with impassable land immediately to the north and east. So unless Canada gets a wild hair, or China really does have troops up there, all I need to worry about is Karen taking my rights.
Thanks. I hadn’t considered the restructuring angle much but agree something is needed.
The reality is, nobody is invading where I live. Center of a continent, with impassable land immediately to the north and east.
That reminds me a bit of Admiral Yamamoto:
Karen does seem to be the greatest threat to our freedoms.
…And some fear law, and most fear God,
And all fear Mrs. Grundy…
Thanks everyone for the great discussion. I tried to engage most posts and hope it didn’t come off as too… Judge Nappy (I think that’s the right one). Open post away.
You chose a difficult subject and owned it. Nice work.
Thank you.
Countries are defined by physical boundaries. They are geographical regions.
Nations are collective bodies of people with shared interests and cultural values.
Most all conflicts arise because countries and nations are not the same thing.
The Jewish diaspora is an interesting microcosm of that, now that you mention it.
“A nation,” explained Leopold Bloom in James Joyce’s “Ulysses,” “is the same people living in the same place” — “or,” he continued, “also living in different places.”
Oddly, my lecture this morning was on Nationalism.
That is a damn good point.
Ukraine is easily explained by recognizing two nations have been fighting over the same ground for in excess of a thousand years.
Until one nation succeeds in purging the other from that ground, the political boundaries are mostly meaningless and temporary at best.
Note that both of those nations involved have been actively trying to purge the other in recent times.
Definitely not an easy question to answer. Religion is not common. Morality is not common. Food stuff not common.
Not everyone can agree that the “ideals” that we are supposed to have even exist anymore.
Maybe we are just in a dead bedroom sort of country.
Language is becoming less and less common, and I don’t just mean non natives.
‘Not everyone can agree that the “ideals” that we are supposed to have even exist anymore.’
This is probably crucial.
We were taught in grade school that diversity is what binds us together.
An Australian folk song has a line, “We are one, we are many”
Except for those others, of course
I think – as an example – the First Amendment is something we still (barely) have in common.
The idiots who agitate against it have NO IDEA what it’s really like to live in a nation that does not have freedom of speech.
Perhaps a lot of what’s going wrong here is just ignorance. I mean, there are a lot of stupid Americans out there.
Ignorance and bad actors. There are a lot of shysters, quacks and con men in this country.
It’s a tough one. A bit depressing too.
It is depressing. But at least you had the courage and the writing skill to ask the question.
Its the first step to coming up with an answer.
Look, you heathens might call it casserole, but here in Minnesoda, we call it hotdish!
Shared beliefs, especially a guidance system like a constitution. And by that I mean a fixed constitution, not one that changes on a whim rather than an ameendment. I’s clear that we are much less of a country than we used to be.
Of course that brings up the whole idea of secession, or maybe a reorganization of states and their boundaries. But as many have pointed out, it’s more of a city versus rural divide, with the suburbs up for grabs. How do you reorganize a country that looks like this? Very messily, if at all. You could come up with a plan, but try convincing everyone to go along. You can’t get there from here. Especially the ones who want everybody, even outside their state, to agree with them.
If you could get the federal government to be less intrusive, maybe the states can try to go their own way, and if people don’t like the state they’re in, they can move.
Or maybe something simple (?) like allow border counties to switch to an adjoining state (and counties that are next to a county that’s on a border can go with that county). But you still have the problem with fedgov. Except maybe as rural counties in liberal states switch to more conservative states, the conservative states gain population, and hence more reps in Congress. Of course the liberals could see what would happen and try their damnedest to stop it.
In Europe, boundaries change, countries divide, and it kind of works because the people with common ideals/culture for the most part still live near each other. They may have been thrown together by some past war or conquest, but it’s possible to disentangle that.
Of course, I’m not saying anything here a lot of you haven’t already said either here, or earlier.
Sometimes I wonder if it’s just language holding a country together.
Germany, for example, has all the same variety we do. And some of the extremes are even more prevalent there.
But they all speak German, or at least that’s how it was when I lived there.
Language is definitely a factor. It’s hard to feel connected to someone you don’t understand 🙂
But they all speak German
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speyer_line
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benrath_line
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uerdingen_line
Best German:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gG62zay3kck
Looking at the county-level map, I’m wondering what is it with the Mississippi River? It’s not just population centers.
Also, it looks like Utah, Oklahoma, and West Virginia are the only states with no D counties in 2020. Hawaii, Vermont, Massachusetts, and Rhode Island are the only ones all D.
The northern counties of NY lurching from red to blue seems weird to me, other than the one county that has some colleges. I guess Vermont is nearby but I never sensed any kinship with Vermont in my travels up there.
The guy lived to 94 so maybe he’s onto something.
https://nypost.com/2022/10/25/worlds-dirtiest-man-amou-haji-dead-at-94/
I think I’ve seen that guy sleeping on the subway before.
Dr. Oz just wiped the floor with John Fetterman in the PA Senate debate. Certainly no libertarian, Oz managed to come across as a center-right Republican. He was better prepared, did a better job of deflecting questions, and allowed Fetterman to come across worse than some kid in a 12th grade debate. In fact, embarrassingly, Fetterman came across worse than Joe Biden, if you can believe it. What could save Fetterman? Early voting – tens of thousands of Pennsylvanians have already sent in their ballots; and Gov. candidate Shapiro’s coattails as he easily whips the GOP’s out of touch, out of his mind candidate.
Huh, I didn’t realize Pat Toomey or Rick Santorum was running for PA governor this year.
Fortification.
I want to believe.
These questions also apply to pro sports fans. Hey we happen to have a team in this city owned by an out of state billionaire and filled with out of state players. I’m gonna be a rabid fan, I think.
Sports fanaticism is not, for the most part, related to any set of ideals. It’s more about where you lived during that time in life when you were interested in sports. (Of course, some people will talk about ideals like the “Cardinal way” in baseball, but I don’t want to push that much around here 🙂 ) But it certainly has that shared feeling of belonging.
It’s hard to tell if the reason you love your sports team or your country is due to proximity or virtue. That’s all I’m pointing out.
That’s a good question. I think there’s usually not a lot of virtue involved.
Or a corporation that pays lip service to being ‘publicly owned’, but without any returns or control involved for the ‘owners’
A song for the subject.
https://archive.ph/FEk9P/884702fec21b5883d6e56622602ebd4377ae0e9f.webp
NSFW.
https://archive.ph/WWntD/665f018df5ecb81479dcbb092d62a7cc233eefa1.webp
NSFW.
https://archive.ph/yEq9k/e9eb9baf6e66301ec841c9c341b4792c6d08e535.webp
NSFW.
https://i.imgur.com/tqGO5J4.jpg
NSFW.
https://archive.ph/5VQde/c0ddd1d7629c7eb9ab6badd1e9ec98808024e47c.webp
NSFW.
Boobs makes us a country?
OT: Looks like there is a suspect found in the beating of a Marco Rubio canvasser.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/man-taken-custody-after-sen-rubio-reports-canvasser-brutally-attacked
It’s totally okay because the guy that got beat up was a Cuban white supremacist.
/leftists
Fantastic essay.
I really doubt that we ever had a unified country. My people came from the wrong countries so they were always the out group.
Didn’t stop them from going off to fight though, I guess.
I think we are, and have been, well into the divorce. Our massively successful country has enabled denial for a long time, but we haven’t been an intact country for a couple hundred years. The last hundred saw consolidation of the technocratic, managerial state, the exact opposite of the values you describe.
I hope we can figure out a way to minimize the far off powers and focus out efforts on our communities.
Before we blow everything to hell, of course.
Looking at the map someone (?) posted above, I don’t think there is going to be a divorce, but rather a messy legal battle.
One of those lawsuits that keeps going long after the initial party’s are dead and no one knows what is being fought over.
+1 Bleak Nation
Im going to work.
Alert Rufus.
Just watched the Fetterman/Oz debate (part of it, anyway) and if SF doesn’t dunk on Lump tomorrow I will be sorely disappointed. He fluffed the introduction!
Gah I’m not THAT much of a political junkie. What the hell is wrong with you.
I’m a Kuato-sexual. Don’t judge!
Because of this:
https://twitter.com/michaelmalice/status/1585108262344876032
Simply exquisite.
https://t.co/u5Fm5MYLRS
He’s brain damaged.
So. Perfect for the Senate.
OMG that is painful. I had to tap out.
That is so painful, yet so hilarious.
The absolute worst response, if that’s what you call it, that I’ve ever seen in a political debate.
It’s not even close. I’m actually thrilled I am alive to see it.
My wife could rouse me out of a dead drunk sleep, ask me why I’m naked in bed with her 16 year old stepdaughter, produce a video recording of the livestream we made and I’d still be able to come up with a better answer.
Ugh. I turned that into incest by mistake, but I suppose that makes the point even better.
Oddly specific and arousing.
I want to live in the timeline where those two candidates end the debate by breaking into a song and dance routine.
I need the Singing Frog.
One of the strengths of this country has been that you don’t need to be a particular ethnicity or race to be American. I’d also say that there has been a long term movement to split into identity affiliation. Going back to a pre civil War pattern of being first and foremost marked by your state of residence plays into that.
My Nation went downhill as soon as we gave up the Red Ensign for a leaf, Dagnabbit! Joking but sorta true.
America had the right idea at first: life, liberty, freedom to pursue happiness, individualism as a means to do so, but community to become a nation that had each other’s backs.
It took a while to solve that slavery thing, but generally speaking, it was mostly moving in the right direction.
Then some Karens (male and female) in the late 19th century got bored and began to focus on the negative and become nags and scolds: “progressives.” They went looking for flaws and found them. They began to undermine pride in being American.
Woodrow Wilson was one of them too, although he didn’t want to stop at “fixing” America; he thought (very Obama-like) he could fix the world.
The Korean War and Vietnam War made it possible, then fashionable to criticize America. The modern self-condemnation of America is why new immigrants have a hard time becoming “American” — how can you be proud to become a member of a nation whose own citizens criticize it constantly?
Now that the hippies and their descendants have torn down American culture and entrenched themselves in education, mass media, and permanent bureaucracies, they aren’t going to use that power to unite; they plan to continue to destroy. And I’ll never understand why.
The self-flagellation will stop once morale improves! Totally agree with “She-Lectro”!
That one is mine and I’m copywriting it.
People believed that could limit government without violence. Be nice if true. *I’m not advocating violence, just pointing out the obvious.
Tough to limit the Government when 3/4’s of the populace is either on the dole or work directly for said Government. Be quiet Straff! You’ll queer the deal!
For those of you musing about the U.S. becoming a confederation as a potential solution, I leave you with this thought:
Canada’s a confederation. Fat lot of good it’s doing us these days.
Alberta is slapping ineffectually at Ottawa’s chest. “Unhand me, you Brute!”
Semi-Spartan asked a very cogent question. What if we turned that on its head and asked “What does it mean to be a Family”? The answers will shock you!
Good evening, Festus. We are family, are we not?
As for blood family… lots of crazy there, self included. Also a few relatives who were front and center helping out when the SHTF. Good people.
Those porns are very popular in current year. I blame Clueless.
Another foggy morning.
Hey Glibs!
Warm and drizzling. Not a good morning for a walk.
Wait, the recent “school shooter” was an incel and his rifle had no hand guards?
That’s how the news has reported it this morning. *shrug*
https://ktla.com/news/local-news/pickaxe-wielding-woman-attacks-pasadena-home-where-grandmother-was-babysitting-newborn/
Perfect head!ine.
I have questions.
I think I’m gonna go to work today and hand out some raises.
Can’t you hand them out here?
I donno, do his employees browse this site?
Doubful, but most of them are good people.
+t
https://www.pennlive.com/news/2022/10/fetterman-struggles-in-rapid-fire-debate-format-as-he-and-oz-trade-well-worn-barbs.html
Maybe I’ll skip the play by play and rest on that.
Elsewhere “JOHN SPOKE BETTER TONIGHT THAN HE DID IN PRIMARY” – damning with faint praise?
yeah, the cut up I saw from wapo makes it look pretty good for fetterman.
Guessing that isn’t so accurate?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FDsPU9lPxpY&list=PL1PzazvznDLtj_qArnRvHoFK-LTFiFL3v&index=10
Morning music.
No, not my channel.
Not sure if drugs will be falling out of my ass:
https://5townscentral.com/2022/10/25/nys-supreme-court-reinstates-fired-unvaccinated-employees-orders-backpay/
“NYS Supreme Court Reinstates Fired Unvaccinated Employees, Orders Backpay”
One important thing- everything in NY is backwards, the ‘supreme’ courts are the lowest level court you can go to trial in. So… doubt this will stand, assuming it gets appealed. But the appeals court will have to deal with some difficult questions from the lower court ruling.
better link: https://abc7chicago.com/new-york-supreme-court-ny-nyc-vaccine-mandate-judge-strikes-down/12376645/
So… narrow ruling, the city will ignore it, etc. etc. etc.
Nothing changes, for now at least.
It’s NY’s M.O. Get shot down in court on a narrow (or sometimes not so narrow) ruling, slightly modify policy, fuck over people and wait for the ass dragging courts to catch up, then rinse and repeat.
Rulings should now start with “Given the state’s history of legislative shenanigans and operation in bad faith…”
Good morning, rhy, Lack, Sean, RoaT, and U!
I managed to put it off for almost a week, but yesterday I had to start plodding through the Zoom video of the Board meeting and commence to writing up the minutes. I’m just over a third of the way through an almost-90-minute meeting. I left off just before my boss started reviewing his preliminary budget for next year…which will probably take up most of the rest of the time. ***SIGH!!!***🙄
Well, if it doesn’t you’ll know the company is in trouble and it’s time to look for work.
Considering much of the discussion so far in the meeting has been about replacing our oldest branch building with a new one on the same lot AND starting to invest heavily in a newish service delivery technology….I think we’re expecting to hang on for a while longer. I have every confidence that my boss will explain this in great detail. Painstaking detail.
They’re destroying the historic branch?!
I, for one, sincerely hope that “built in the early ’60s” doesn’t constitute “historic.”
GT, hello, what is the name of the stretching book you have?
A friend brought it up
Stretching by Bob Anderson. This is the “pocket book” edition I bought, though apparently in a more recent (“40th Anniversary”) version. There are multiple editions available. 40th Anniversary editions seem to be the most recent.
…and, of course, good morning, Yu!
Cool! I dont have that one yet,
Thanks GT.
You’re welcome. It was the least I could do, which is why I did it.
Ordered
good morning morning people.
I’m not a morning person. I much prefer being a night owl.
Mornin’.
My waste-of-time 8:30 is cancelled for the rest of the week. That’s a good sign, right?
“We are going to reschedule it for 7:30”
It is frequently rescheduled to 4:30 or 6:30 on company holidays, because most of the attendees are in Europe.
I don’t attend on those days.
Depends on whether the person who runs the meeting is just taking a few days off or was marched out the front door by Security.
It’s good to be wanted and necessary though, right?
Good mornin’ GT,rhy, Lack, Sean, RoaT, and U.
Now that “The Debate” is over we’ll have to listen to all the smart people explaining who was Top Dog. Then after the election explain why the loser lost.
It is absolutely scary to believe these guys and all the other politicians are the best and brightest. If only the right people would…Democracy’s a hellva drug
The system hasn’t yet been built which selects for the best and brightest.
It matches the voters which aren’t the best and brightest.
How is it “Smart” Phones keep getting dumber and dumber?
I have a work-issued iPhone. It has a charging cable that is regular USB-A on the end that doesn’t go into the phone.
You’d think that I could just plug the thing into my desktop and it would charge without needing me to do any more. Nope. It doesn’t want to charge until I answer some questions about how to interact with the “USB Accessory” I just connected it to. That means it wants me to swipe, type in a full password on a stupid phone touchscreen keyboard (that doesn’t rotate into a bigger keyboard if you turn the phone) and hit a button before it will charge from a computer.
Apple just needs to close its doors, or fire all of its UI design people. You should start charging regardless of whether I’ve told you if I want you to trust the PC you’re plugged into, especially when the battery displays at 3%.
‘How is it “Smart” Phones keep getting dumber and dumber?’
Have to justify all those programmer pay rates somehow.
Plug it into the wall, instead. Unless work didn’t give you the converter thingy that’s supposed to come in the box.
I already did, but I had to unplug something else to do so, I just shouldn’t have to.
I’m assuming you only have to do that setup once?
I don’t remember anything so complicated with mine.
I wish.
It’s Every Damn Time.
The dialog it insists I answer is “Should I trust this PC?” It doesn’t remember the answer, and won’t begin charging until it’s answered. I can’t answer it without unlocking the phone, but the security settings require a PC-grade password typed into that stupid “I did not type that!” soft keyboard.
Ah. Well, I “trust” mine because I share my music library with the phone. So that was a one-time thing.
And I only have to enter a PIN number on rare occasions, not a password.
The old work phone was just an 8-digit PIN. The new one is a full on password. I don’t know whether it was Apple or the State that made that decision, but it makes me even more disinclined to use the phone because it takes so long to unlock.
When I plug my Android phone into my laptop to charge, it always asks whether I’m transferring files, but I don’t have to enter a password. I suppose I could tell it I’m never going to transfer files and stop it from asking every time…but one of these days I might actually want to transfer files.
My android starts charging when plugged in and defaults to acting like a USB drive with options to switch it to other modes if I want to.
I don’t need a phone, computer or car that’s smarter than me. I realize I’m a sideline player but still…there would be a market for dumb stuff .
I want to send a picture. Granddaughter(s): “It’s easy, all you have to do is this, this, this and this, type in their address, hit this little icon right there.”
Uh-huh, you lost me at the first “this”.
Maybe I’ll just mail the picture, sure, it’s $.58 but what the heck, you’re worth it.
I’m not a fan of those products either, but this is a work phone, I didn’t get to pick it.
Postage is $0.58?
Guess I’m not mailing anything. I’ll hold on to these forever first class stamps a while longer.
Hate to break it to you, 4(20), but the snail mail stamps are $.60 now. She’s still worth it, though, right?
Well, shit. I’m definately not mailing anything now.
I sent a package a few days ago, using the USPS Express box. The price went up because it’s the holiday season, then in January? the new rates kick in. There really isn’t an old rate anymore. I understand inflation and so does the Post Office. Someone needs to bring the Administration up to date, maybe President Kamala.
Yeah, the kids are worth it…
I have a work-issued iPhone.
I see the root of the problem. I am glad I have neither a work-issued phone or iPhone.
I kinda have that ‘on-call’ problem. I have come to hate the damn thing, even if it rarely rings.
This is good,
https://thefederalist.com/2022/10/25/democrats-the-only-way-to-save-democracy-is-one-party-rule/
Indeed, the Pinochet Party. Once we’ve given out enough helicopter rides, we can open it back up again, with anti-fraud safeguards in place this time.
For Democracy!!
It’s amazing that they openly admit these things and idiots still vote for them. What the hell will it take for people to wake up?
Fuck democracy
But!
Democracy Man!
🙄