Stoic Friday XXXIX

Last Week

Meditations

How to Be a Stoic

How to Think Like a Roman Emperor

Seneca’s Letters from a Stoic

If you have anger issues, this one is a great tool (h/t mindyourbusiness)

This week’s book:

Discourses and Selected Writings

Disclaimer: I’m not your Supervisor. These are my opinions after reading through these books a few times.

Epictetus was born a slave around 50 ad. His owner was Epaphroditus, a rich freedman who was once a slave of Nero. Though he was a slave Epictetus was sent to study philosophy under Musonius Rufus.

Epictetus was lame and there are some stories it was caused by his master and others that it was caused by disease.

He was a freedman when all philosophers were banished from Rome in 89 by the Emperor Domitian. He then started his school in Greece, and had many students. He did not leave any writings from his lessons, but one of his students, Flavius Arrian, took notes and wrote the Discourses.

Epictetus did not marry, had no children, and lived to be around 80-85. In retirement, he adopted a child that would have been abandoned and raised him with a woman.

He died sometime around AD 135.

He might be my favorite Stoic teacher. I love his bare bones and very straight forward approach.

Following is a paragraph-by-paragraph discussion of one of his lessons. Epictetus’s text appears in bold, my replies are in normal text.

 

In how many ways do the external impressions arise, and what aids should we have ready at hand to deal with them?

The external impressions come to us in four ways; for either things are, and seem so to be; or they are not, and do not seem to be, either; or they are, and do not seem to be; or they are not, and yet seem to be. Consequently, in all these cases it is the business of the educated man to hit the mark.

It can be difficult to discern if what I think I see is reality or not. If we cannot determine if our impressions are accurate, it is easy to make wrong choices. If I do not learn this skill, I will never live according with nature, because I will not know what nature really is.

But whatever be the thing that distresses us, against that we ought to bring up our reinforcements. If the things that distress us are sophisms of Pyrrho and the Academy, let us bring up our reinforcements against them; if they are the plausibilities of things, whereby we are led to think that certain things are good when they are not, let us seek reinforcements at that point; if the thing that distresses us is a habit, we should try to hunt up the reinforcements with which to oppose that. What reinforcements, then, is it possible to find with which to oppose habit? Why, the contrary habit.

Pyrrho was a Skeptic philosopher that argued it was impossible to make concrete judgements because sense perception did not correlate to reality. While it might not be possible to debate someonee who denies objective reality, it is possible to refute them, if I have enough of an understanding of the underlying philosophy. The more solid my understanding of Stoicism is, the harder it is to fool me into worrying about the things I can’t control.

For my bad habit of staying up too late, turning that into a habit of going to bed on time more often consistently will eradicate that. (as I type this, I should be in bed reading, if I was keeping to my schedule)

5You hear the common folk saying, “That poor man! He is dead; his father perished, and his mother; he was cut off, yes, and before his time, and in a foreign land.” Listen to the arguments on the other side, tear yourself away from these expressions, set over against one habit the contrary habit. To meet sophistic arguments we must have the processes of logic and the exercise and the familiarity with these; against the plausibilities of things we must have our preconceptions clear, polished like weapons, and ready at hand.

These are the normal reactions to death. As a Stoic, I should understand that this is a natural part of life and understand it doesn’t necessarily indicate misfortune.

When death appears to be an evil, we must have ready at hand the argument that it is our duty to avoid evils, and that death is an inevitable thing.[1] For what can I do? Where shall I go to escape it? Suppose that I am Sarpedon the son of Zeus, in order that I may nobly say, as he did: “Seeing that I have left my home for the war, I wish either to win the prize of valour myself, or else to give someone else the chance to win it; if I am unable to succeed in something myself, I shall not begrudge another the achievement of some noble deed.”[2] Granted that such an act as Sarpedon’s is beyond us, does not the other alternative fall within the compass of our powers?[3] And where can I go to escape death? Show me the country, show me the people to whom I may go, upon whom death does not come; show me a magic charm against it. If I have none, what do you wish me to do? I cannot avoid death.

When death comes, it is difficult to deal with. When my dog died, I found out I was not as prepared for it as I thought I was. In spite of this, I was able to mourn the loss without adding to the misery with complaints about how unfair it was. It still gets to me, even 5 weeks later, but logically I know there is no guarantee for a long life for humans or animals.

10Instead of avoiding the fear of it, shall I die in lamentation and trembling? For the origin of sorrow is this—to wish for something that does not come to pass. Therefore, if I can change externals according to my own wish, I change them; but if I cannot, I am ready to tear out the eyes of the man who stands in my way. For it is man’s nature not to endure to be deprived of the good, not to endure to fall into the evil. Then, finally, when I can neither change the circumstances, nor tear out the eyes of the man who stands in my way, I sit down and groan, and revile whom I can—Zeus and the rest of the gods; for if they do not care for me, what are they to me? “Yes,” you say, “but that will be impious of you.” What, then, shall I get that is worse than what I have now? In short, we must remember this—that unless piety and self-interest be conjoined, piety cannot be maintained in any man. Do not these considerations seem urgent?

As long as I understood there was nothing I could do to prevent the death, I should not get too upset. While this is a lofty goal, in practice, I fell a little short. When we buried him, I felt like Robert Duvall’s character in Open Range when he was asked if he wanted to pray when they buried their cook and dog:

You want to speak with the man upstairs, go on and do it. I’ll stand right here and listen, hat in hand, but I ain’t talking to that son of a bitch. And I’ll be holding a grudge for him letting this befall a sweet kid like Mose. 

I did not hang onto the anger too long, it was very counter productive and it was more fun to reminisce with my wife about what a fun dog he was.

15Let the follower of Pyrrho or of the Academy come and oppose us. Indeed I, for my part, have no leisure for such matters, nor can I act as advocate to the commonly received opinion. If I had a petty suit about a mere bit of land, I should have called in some one else to be my advocate. With what evidence, then, am I satisfied? With that which belongs to the matter in hand. To the question how perception arises, whether through the whole body, or from some particular part, perhaps I do not know how to give a reasonable answer, and both views perplex me. But that you and I are not the same persons, I know very certainly. Whence do I get this knowledge? When I want to swallow something, I never take the morsel to that place but to this[4]; when I wish to take bread I never take sweepings, but I always go after the bread as to a mark. And do you yourselves,[5] who take away the evidence of the senses, do anything else? Who among you when he wishes to go to a bath goes to a mill instead?

I get the impression that Epictetus had little patience for the Cynics and how they would twist meanings of words to deflect the arguments. It’s frustrating when I try to talk to my mom about things and we end up talking more about definitions than ideas.

20—What then? Ought we not to the best of our ability hold fast also to this—maintain, that is, the commonly received opinion, and be on our guard against the arguments that seek to overthrow it?—And who disputes that? But only the man who has the power and the leisure should devote himself to these studies; while the man who is trembling and perplexed and whose heart is broken within him, ought to devote his leisure to something else.

When I have no active problems I can spend time worrying about abstract principles, but when I am stressed, I have other things on my mind. If I am struggling with externals and having trouble seeing that the problem is outside of my control, then I should focus on that.

 

Music this week is possibly my favorite Iron Maiden album Piece of Mind.

Where Eagles Dare– They never played this one anytime I’ve seen them, it’s a ripper.

The Trooper-For a long time, my favorite song of theirs, maybe it still is.

Still Life– I always really liked this one, none of  my friends agreed with me.

 

About The Author

ron73440

What I told my wife when she said my steel Baby Eagle .45 was heavy, "Heavy is good, heavy is reliable, if it doesn't work you could always hit him with it."-Boris the Blade MOLON LABE

157 Comments

  1. UnCivilServant

    For once, I haven’t got any petty gripes to fill my responses to the weekly stoic.

    • SDF-7

      I’m surprised you often do… I mean, the man‘s been retired since ’92 and all…

  2. Don escaped Texas

    it doesn’t necessarily indicate misfortune

    If I don’t live to a hunert, I’m suing all y’all

    • SDF-7

      That’s right up there with “If we don’t live through this… I’m going to kill you!”

      • Don escaped Texas

        I come from simple people: our history is full of tough times and brutal realities. Then I see generations of people who have a dozen gross of airbags and inoculations for every microbe and they think they’re entitled to a charmed life of ten decades without so much as spilling a hot coffee on their junk the first time. Christ: everyone I know is limping from something and they won’t even sue the folk who deserve it.

    • ron73440

      Personally, I am on the Steven Wright plan:

      I intend to live forever, so far, so good.

      • Nephilium

        I’ll live forever, or die trying!

  3. Don escaped Texas

    we end up talking more about definitions than ideas

    Embrace it: socratic exploration of “definitions” is a great way to help someone unwind why they believe what they do and how they got there, which essentially where the discussion needs to go anyway. I would go so far as to say that the stoic should always gird his loins for this sort of bushwhacking: it’s fairly necessary for any serious discussion.

    • ron73440

      We talk about definitions because she twists words and changes definitions to suit her argument.

      For instance: “freedom” is having the government restrict gun rights so you can be free from gun violence.

      • UnCivilServant

        That “Definition” is just plain counterfactual. How can anyone not be in constant pain from thinking like that?

        • Bobarian LMD

          How can anyone not be in constant pain from thinking like that?

          He said how, did you not read the word “she”?

          /misogynist off

      • Sean

        GTFO

      • Don escaped Texas

        no doubt there are bad faith arguments

        my mom has moved on to smug: she doesn’t care how stupid and self-destructive her politics are so long are her team wins; I’m ashamed

        • Suthenboy

          You are my brother? I didn’t know you were posting on here. Why didn’t you tell me?

    • Lackadaisical

      “gird his loins for this sort of bushwhacking”

      Now lets not get crotchety.

      • Don escaped Texas

        yeah, I thought that was well-crafted

        RJ was throwing around some BillDub, and it got me going stealing

      • Tres Cool

        puns like that make me groin

    • R C Dean

      Embrace it indeed. The core of any sophisticated contract are the defined terms (typically given initial capitals, so you know its as defined in the document). Good lawyers go to the defined terms first and make sure they are good with how the terms are used in the contract. I’ve had knock-down fights over whether “Company” includes its “Affiliates” (also defined), just its “Subsidiaries” (defined when not included in Affiliates), or neither. Don’t get me started on the definitions of “Confidential Information”; I probably have a dozen in my template bank.

  4. The Late P Brooks

    Hero of the Revolution

    The former IRS contractor accused of leaking former President Donald Trump’s tax returns and stealing tax information on thousands of the wealthiest people in the US pleaded guilty in federal court on Thursday.

    Prosecutors say Charles Littlejohn of Washington, DC, sent Trump’s tax returns and other data to two media outlets that “published numerous articles describing the tax information they obtained from the Defendant.”

    Littlejohn pleaded guilty to the one count of disclosing tax information, which he was charged with in late September.

    The contractor’s crime affected so many individuals that prosecutors plan to create a public website to notify the victims of any developments in the case.

    During the plea hearing, an attorney for Trump gave a victim impact statement, calling the crime “an egregious breach.”

    Trump’s attorney, Alina Habba, said that Trump’s returns were “kept in a vault at the IRS” and suggested that the leak may have cost Trump votes in the 2020 election.

    Habba said Trump was opposed to the plea deal and called for the maximum sentence of five years in prison for Littlejohn.

    Judge Ana Reyes, the federal judge overseeing the case, said she agreed “completely that anyone taking the law into their own hands is unacceptable.”

    “I cannot overstate how troubled I am by what occurred,” Reyes said. “Make no mistake, this was not acceptable.”

    A sentencing hearing has been scheduled for January 29.

    He probably thinks Biden is going to pardon him.

    • Sean

      Maybe Brandon can make him the new Presidential dog walker.

    • B.P.

      “…and stealing tax information on thousands of the wealthiest people in the US…”

      “Littlejohn pleaded guilty to the one count of disclosing tax information, which he was charged with in late September.”

      So, unlike other federal laws where each transgression/file/whatever is a separate offense.

      • kinnath

        A thousand sentences running consecutively should do the trick.

      • invisible finger

        And it’s only his first offense.

    • JaimeRoberto (carnitas/spicy salsa)

      What a little dick.

    • R C Dean

      One thing about pleading guilty: it really paves the way for civil suits and damages. I’d love to see him living in poverty the rest of his life because his paycheck is being garnished by Trump (and hopefully some of the other thousands who he screwed over).

  5. The Late P Brooks

    Personally, I am on the Steven Wright plan:

    Or Yossarian, who planned to live forever or die trying.

  6. Don escaped Texas

    from dead thread in which I suggested I suffered few gun restrictions in my jurisdiction:

    here’s a big one: can’t carry a loaded long arm even with the full/max license which I have; I can carry a long arm if the ammo is not readily accessible, but you don’t want to have the “but the mag was in the glovebox” argument with a DA and twelve neighbors who are all clearly insane

    • Sean

      And thus the allure of AR pistols.

    • EvilSheldon

      If you’re ever in the position of having to deploy a long gun outside your home, arguing with the jury is going to be the least of your concerns.

      • prolefeed

        Except in many jurisdictions you might find yourself arguing with a jury about having exercised your right to keep and bear arms, prior to ever deploying it outside the home.

  7. Tundra

    The Trooper is my favorite.

    Interesting piece today. I strikes me that discernment is much harder for those trying to stay on the path. To those who don’t hold with the ideas of capital T truth, I suspect it becomes easier to talk yourself into things, even if they fall short.

    Good stuff, Ron. Thank you.

  8. kinnath

    And so it begins:

    Teacher killed and several people wounded in France school knife attack

    A teacher was killed Friday and several people injured in a knife attack at a public school in Arras, northern France, according to CNN affiliate BFMTV.

    A worker at the school is in critical condition after receiving several stab wounds and a second teacher was wounded less seriously, BFMTV reported.

    The suspect has been put under investigation for terrorism, the French national anti-terrorist prosecutor’s office announced Friday.

    • kinnath

      According to BFMTV, the suspect cried “Allahu Akbar” during the attack. His brother was also reportedly detained.

        • Suthenboy

          their new PM says their problems are “born of policies based on naivety.”
          No shit.
          We are going to have the same problem here.

          • R.J.

            Oh, we will never admit it. I give the PM points for at least admitting it. Our democrats will merely double down until we are all dead.

            • The Other Kevin

              Just look at the trans issue. The UK and the rest of Europe are closing down hospitals and going back to therapy first. We’re not even close to that.

      • R C Dean

        “the suspect cried “Allahu Akbar” during the attack”

        His purpose and motivation remain a mystery.

  9. The Late P Brooks

    Are you a good witch or a bad witch?

    “Following its designation as Very Large Online Platform, X is required to comply with the full set of provisions introduced by the DSA since late August 2023, including the assessment and mitigation of risks related to the dissemination of illegal content, disinformation, gender-based violence, and any negative effects on the exercise of fundamental rights, rights of the child, public security and mental well-being,” the EU’s executive arm said.

    Good grief.

    • UnCivilServant

      Block the EU.

      All websites should just block the EU.

      Especially EU-based websites.

    • R.J.

      Fuck off slaver.

    • SDF-7

      “You and what army, you demilitarized pricks?” replied Musk in my fantasy land….

      • R.J.

        EU is a dying power. it’s off the cliff now and in free fall. Those leftist commie pricks will have no power at all in a very short while. Hoist on their own retarded petard.

      • UnCivilServant

        Or the Starlink Satellites unveil their space lasers and fry the office the Eurocrats were taking their long lunches away from.

        • SDF-7

          Opera clap

    • Not Adahn

      Tish and Kathy are pushing a new law that would ban corporations from “using an algorithm on children.”

  10. Rebel Scum

    They’re basically brainwashed to hate Jews.

    We have to make war to prove that we are stronger than the Jews,

    says a little Palestinian schoolgirl in a Gaza school.

    So how do you fix that?

    • R.J.

      I don’t know. Is the brainwashing any better here? We haven’t solved that either.

      • Tundra

        Solved it?

        We’re importing these bullshit conflicts by the millions and brainwashing the kids to believe that diversity is strength.

        Europe is toast. I hope it’s not too late here.

        • Sean

          I hope it’s not too late here.

          Narrator: “It is.”

          • Tundra

            Pretty big country, Sean.

            • kinnath

              I’m pretty sure the Clinton Archipelago is beyond saving. In many cases, Trump Land surrounds small Clinton Islands and those can be saved. But most of the archipelago is toast.

            • Sean

              I’m just playing. I’m fairly optimistic most of the time.

        • Lackadaisical

          Would it warm all your hearts that I’m friends with a Muslim family across the street:

          The family was back in Lebanon for a month or two and when they were on the plane back the kid spontaneously started singing our national anthem. A lot of people are lost causes but not everyone is.

          • Nephilium

            There’s a Muslim household (I assume) down the street from me. I knew they were completely assimilated when they put up a big inflatable yard decoration (a mosque emblazoned with Eid Mubarak IIRC) to celebrate.

  11. The Late P Brooks

    Where would we be without NASA?

    SpaceX’s powerful Falcon Heavy rocket successfully launched on Friday morning, carrying a NASA mission bound for a distant asteroid.

    Targeting the asteroid Psyche, the eponymous NASA mission is flying a spacecraft — about the width of a tennis court — on a journey of almost six years and about 2.2 billion miles, arriving at the planetary body in July 2029.

    The launch took off at 10:19 a.m. ET from NASA’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida.

    ——-

    NASA wants to study the composition of the asteroid, which the agency describes as “an unusual object likely rich in metal.” The Psyche spacecraft is armed with a variety of scientific tools, such as instruments for studying the asteroid’s magnetic field and chemical makeup.

    Maybe it’s solid gold, and we can use it to pay off our credit cards.

    • SDF-7

      As long as they’re not confused in their readings because of a Slaver stasis field….

  12. Don escaped Texas

    Testing My Fertility at the End of My World

    I thought more frequently about external factors: our warming earth, rising sea levels, simultaneous global pandemics, war, racial inequality, stripped reproductive rights, and the general feelings of unease about the state of the world. . . Since 2020, so many of us have watched our plans slowly leak through tightly grasped fists. We’ve had to spill out the ideas we once held about relationships, family, and career, but worse yet, we’ve had to do it without a real space to acknowledge the loss. Why aren’t we discussing what happens when we lose years of living and fertility to pandemics, careers, and dead-end relationships?

    Let’s dream up the dozen reasons something isn’t our own damned fault.

    • R.J.

      See my comment to Rebel Scum above. The brain washing is real.

    • kinnath

      dead-end relationships?

      Start out looking for a life partner instead of a fuck buddy perhaps?

      • Tundra

        Patriarchy talk!

        But yes. There is a reason this is the most successful path.

    • Bobarian LMD

      Mirrors don’t exist in that world, apparently.

    • pistoffnick

      Look at this amazing lint I found in my belly button!

    • The Other Kevin

      “stripped reproductive rights”
      Somehow making it harder to get an abortion has made women less fertile.

    • trshmnstr the terrible

      Why aren’t we discussing what happens when we lose years of living and fertility to pandemics, careers, and dead-end relationships?

      because you get cancelled pretty quickly once you start riding that particular train of thought.

      • prolefeed

        They conspicuously left out “abortions” impacting their fertility.

  13. Rebel Scum

    What do they think is going to happen?

    JUST IN: Jordanians have broken through the army blockades and are now headed towards the Israeli border..

    • Don escaped Texas

      all I can find is that Jordan dispersed protestors amassing on the border four hours ago

    • Sean

      I don’t get it.

  14. The Late P Brooks

    I thought more frequently about external factors: our warming earth, rising sea levels, simultaneous global pandemics, war, racial inequality, stripped reproductive rights, and the general feelings of unease about the state of the world. ..

    Another collectivist who can’t see the trees for the forest. Stop worrying about mostly fake global hobgoblins and find somebody to live your goddam life with, if that’s what you want.

    If there was ever somebody who needed to learn to stop obsessing over things completely beyond her control…

  15. Mojeaux

    Just paid admission fee for XY for Missouri State next fall. He starts online classes with Colorado Tech next month. But he’ll have to go to Springfield for school next fall and live on campus. Hopefully he’ll be able to transfer his job there too.

    The South Dakota experiment didn’t work, so let’s hope this one does.

    • Don escaped Texas

      Missouri State

      sw MO is so pretty. I’m sure he won’t spend all his time hiking the hills and fishing the lakes, but, hey: that’s all I ever did in Knoxville and it worked out fine! **

      ** We rate this SomeWhatTrue: left out the part about chasing girls, drinking whiskey, never going to class, and shooting pool

      jk, poor taste I know, but I’ve lived in ugly places and it killed my soul: deep greens and blues are the colors I choose

      • Mojeaux

        Oh, man. I love going to the Ozarks in the fall.

        • trshmnstr the terrible

          This will be our first experience of fall in the Ozarks. I made apple cider today, so the house smells the part. Now the trees need to start turning.

          • Mojeaux

            Wait, WHAT?! You’re THERE?!?!?

            • trshmnstr the terrible

              Yup, moved up at the end of July. We’re about 40 minutes away from Springfield.

              • SDF-7

                Smithers? Who’s that young go-getter in the rubbish bin in Sector 3?

              • Mojeaux

                Wrong Springfield. 😉

  16. Tundra

    No shit?

    We had no idea.

    • B.P.

      Interesting timing.

    • R.J.

      Thanks for letting us know, CIA. As penance, please empty all your desks and FUCK OFF. Last check is in the mail.

  17. The Late P Brooks

    The South Dakota experiment didn’t work, so let’s hope this one does.

    *fingers crossed*

  18. R.J.

    Not feeling terribly Stoic today Ron. I love the music choices though. I must clear my head and get freedom from these things I cannot control.

  19. hayeksplosives

    I could’ve died last Saturday. I could still die today, although that seems less likely.

    I do plan to take better care of myself now, mainly because it’s clear that there are some people who would like me to stick around longer. But I’m at peace with the knowledge that I could kick it at any time. I don’t have any grudges against old friends or family, unsaid apologies or any of that.

    I suppose I should write a will and also make sure my cat will have a home.

    • Don escaped Texas

      good advice for anyone

    • ron73440

      I read where you wrote about that, sounded terrifying.

      Glad you’re OK and didn’t hit anyone, but sorry about the Tesla.

      I remember you had a seizure in your office before, but I thought they were under control.

      Is there any way to prevent them, or do you just have to live with them and hope they don’t happen too often?

    • Mojeaux

      I wish you to feeling better!

      I do plan to take better care of myself now

      Yep, I’m getting on that bandwagon myself, for no other reason than to hurt less and be able to do more.

      • EvilSheldon

        Best reason to do anything, really. Less pain, more doing things.

    • Tundra

      Holy cow! I didn’t read about this. So sorry to hear about your accident but I’m glad you’re okay.

      Taking care of yourself physically is always the right decision. I don’t know a soul who’s gone through the process that didn’t find it to be life-changing.

    • SDF-7

      Sorry to hear about the accident – glad you’re okay. Physically, I’m fine (as far as I know — haven’t seen a doctor since either the Reagan or Bush I admins) — but did have a coworker die of a sudden stroke who was a year or two younger than me earlier in the year… and parents are most certainly getting up there… so yeah, should really sit down and write a will.

      If I can do it in pseudocode, it would be easy.

      if(!wife.dead_too()) { wife.Inventory() = Everything)
      else if(!son.dead_somehow()) { son.Inventory() = Everything)
      else
      state.likely_steals_half
      charity.can_take_rest
      pets.need_a_home

      Glad you’re tolerably okay. Hope you feel better.

      • The Last American Hero

        Legalzoom is fine for wills if your estate is fairly simple. I used it for mine.

        I am not a lawyer nor do I have any relationship with legalzoom.

    • JaimeRoberto (carnitas/spicy salsa)

      All I got was a lump of C4.

      • hayeksplosives

        👆🤣

    • B.P.

      Goddammit. I made that joke in the morning thread.

  20. The Late P Brooks

    Reality intrudes

    Ford executives said Thursday that they’re not prepared to offer more economic value to the United Auto Workers union in contract talks.

    Why it matters: About four weeks into the strike, the UAW on Wednesday shut down another Ford facility — this time the company’s sprawling Kentucky truck factory, which reaps more revenue than Southwest Airlines.

    Driving the news: “On the economics, I would say, yes, we have reached our limit,” Kumar Galhotra, president of the Ford Blue division, said Thursday afternoon on a conference call. “We’ve actually stretched ourselves to get to this point.”

    Ford executives said they were shocked when the UAW on Wednesday walked out of talks on pension issues and collective bargaining rights associated with the company’s battery plants.

    ——-

    The other side: The UAW had no immediate comment Thursday, but union President Shawn Fain has repeatedly called on the automakers to deliver “record contracts” after earning “record profits.”

    “We have been crystal clear, and we have waited long enough, but Ford has not gotten the message,” Fain said Wednesday in a statement after expanding the strike to Kentucky.

    “It’s time for a fair contract at Ford and the rest of the Big Three. If they can’t understand that after four weeks, the 8,700 workers shutting down this extremely profitable plant will help them understand it.”

    Fain is starting to remind me of one of those kamikaze pilots who misses the battleship and crashes into the sea.

    • Don escaped Texas

      I spent the half my career automating the first two thirds of assembly, and someone will get that last third figured out.

      Unlike some, I don’t necessarily object to unions, but they should understand that there is an objective limit to what they are worth and what all the negotiations costs. At some number, they are more expensive than robots and more engineering. It is not easy to figure out where the line is, but they really should stop short of costing themselves out of viability. Markets will make this decision . . . for all concerned: the chips fall where they may.

        • Gender Traitor

          And yet, I’ve been buying Hostess-branded Twinkies, HoHos, and Ding Dongs for the office break room.

          Is this like when instead of firing the problem band member, the band pretends to break up, then re-forms behind that ex-band member’s back?

          • Nephilium

            Or more like when Burger King was “sold” to Tim Horton’s so they could reorganize as a Canadian company to reduce their tax liability.

          • Sensei

            The Hostess Brands company formed in June 2013, having started as a venture by Apollo Global Management and C. Dean Metropoulos and Company,[2] to acquire assets from Old HB, the company formerly known as Interstate Bakeries and Hostess Brands Inc. Apollo and Metropoulos purchased certain cake business assets of Old HB – which had filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy and bankruptcy liquidation – through the bankruptcy court, ultimately assuming the name, branding and much of the product line of the former Hostess Brands.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostess_Brands

      • SDF-7

        I don’t object to unions — just to mandatory unions and to the government keeping businesses from firing every member of a union when they strike. Otherwise it is free association for the workers to organize and attempt to lobby for better conditions, and freedom of contract for the business to say “Eh… nope, sorry” if the terms aren’t acceptable.

    • Grummun

      Shawn Fain
      Sean Fein
      Sinn Fein

      Coincidence? I THINK NOT.

  21. The Late P Brooks

    I could’ve died last Saturday. I could still die today, although that seems less likely.

    Holy shit. I guess I missed something.

    • hayeksplosives

      Car accident. Into a ditch. Bruises, squished vertebrae. But airbags/air curtains deployed.

      Just bed rest now and PT soon.

      My comment that I could die today was meant to mean ANY of us could die today, so no reason to fret about it and no reason to postpone anything that needs resolution.

      • Sensei

        Sorry! Feel better.

        Did you have a seizure or something else?

        • hayeksplosives

          The former.

          I think my driving days are done. I’m grateful no one was hurt.

          • SDF-7

            Another reason to get your buddy to move up with you and in. He can chauffeur.

          • Tres Cool

            Good thing for those sturdy airbags….

            /giggles

    • ron73440

      Yes, yes he is.

      I hate that night guy!

      Although I love the show, I haven’t seen many of his stand up jokes that were funny, but that one always makes me laugh.

  22. The Late P Brooks

    Apropos of whatever:

    The origin of the “neocon”, as I recall, was “a liberal mugged by reality”.

    History is cyclical, they tell me.

    • Beau Knott

      At this point, it’s amazing that history isn’t cynical.

    • Drake

      I thought it was “a Trotskyite mad about an ice pick.”

      • UnCivilServant

        It was an ice axe, not an ice pick.

        • Drake

          When it melts, there’s no evidence!

          • SDF-7

            Ah yes… the favored trick of locked room mystery writers for some time now. (Niven had a screed about that in the afterword to The Patchwork Girl I read recently….

  23. The Late P Brooks

    Car accident. Into a ditch. Bruises, squished vertebrae. But airbags/air curtains deployed.

    Oh, shit. Get well. In the Tesla?

    As for that “any day, at any time” stuff, I have a lot of loose ends which I really need to deal with. As many times as I tell myself to get with it, progress is pathetically slow.

    • Riven

      I… I might have to have that.

      The author says it’s a fever dream “in the worst way,” and I agree with half that statement.

  24. Sean

    Anyone here have a Steam Deck? Do you like it? Downsides?

    • SDF-7

      Sort of have 2. Bought one at son’s request — then he got shitty grades (by my standards) so it stayed in the box. Gave it to my wife (she’s been sick for some months and unable to move about the house) so she could try to play some games to keep from going (more) insane.

      Verdict: She’s barely touched it — but she barely touches her laptop with Steam either.

      Second one is to replace the first. We’ll see if he can earn it by Christmas.

      The little I messed with the first setting it up and whatnot seemed ok… just a little handheld PC. I do mess about with Steam on Linux (my Fedora install) so I have some idea of Proton and how things would run. I can’t imagine playing most of the games I like since they’re really more keyboard/mouse driven… I hate touchpads, and if I were to hook up peripherals to a USB-C docking station I might as well just use the PC.

      Sorry I don’t have a better answer — just the truth.

    • Nephilium

      I’ve heard good things about it, but I’ve got a Switch for the rare times I’m traveling and want to bring some games with me. I much prefer K+M to a controller for pretty much any game but platformers.

    • Riven

      I love mine. Mr. Riven likes his.

      Some games don’t play very well on it (Baldur’s Gate, Catherine), but I’ve played through most of Cyberpunk on mine. Lots of other games, too, but that one is probably the most taxing on a PC/Deck.

    • Sean

      Thanks!

  25. UnCivilServant

    I wish I were really salaried. In a sense where I could go “there’s no work that needs doing today, I’m just going home” instead of watching the clock until the end of my shift.

    • R.J.

      Sad news. You still do that when salaried. And then when SHTF you work overtime for no additional pay.

      • UnCivilServant

        I already get to work overtime with no additional pay when things go sideways.

        I’m “Overtime Exempt”, which is the worst of both worlds.

      • Nephilium

        Once in a while, you do get the option to leave early one day. Which usually means they expect you to come in early several times to balance that out.

      • trshmnstr the terrible

        I really struggle with walking away from the computer when there’s nothing to do. There’s much more of that with my new role and I need to get better at that.

        That said, I’m bailing a bit early today to go pick up half a beef on the other side of Springfield, so it’s not a paralyzing struggle.

  26. The Late P Brooks

    Unlike some, I don’t necessarily object to unions, but they should understand that there is an objective limit to what they are worth and what all the negotiations costs.

    I admit to being rabidly anti-union. For reasons I won’t go into other than “familiarity breeds contempt”.

    As for contracts, if they were serious about “sharing the wealth” they would accept pay cuts as well as raises, depending on how much money comes in. They don’t talk about that.

    • kinnath

      I have no problem with unions. I have massive problems with the government tipping the scales in favor of unions.

      • Sensei

        That’s where I stand.

        Former UFCW member in a closed shop.

    • creech

      Give them, say, 10% of their pay in company stock. Then they can share in the dividends (if any) and the ups and downs of the stock market. I recall reading that some secretaries and clerks at 3M ended up as multi-millionaires by doing so in the early days.

  27. Derpetologist

    Itutu is a concept from Yoruba culture that is similar to stoicism.

    ***
    Itutu, a Yoruba word that is translatable as “cool”, has been used by the Yoruba and more recently by Africanist art historians to describe the aesthetic that characterizes much Yoruba and some African-American art. An Itutu aesthetic includes the appearance of physical or sexual beauty whilst having a humble, calm, collected face that is found in much Yoruba sculpture. It has been suggested by Robert Farris Thompson of Yale University that Itutu is the origin of the American idea of the “cool”. His 1973 article “An Aesthetic of the Cool” traces the idea of Itutu from the Yoruba to several other African civilizations and finally to the Americas, where the descendants of Africans perpetuated the importance of being “cool”.
    ***

    In Swahili, “poa” (cool) is an acceptable response to “how are things?” (mambo vipi?).

  28. The Late P Brooks

    I have massive problems with the government tipping the scales in favor of unions.

    Absolutely. The Biden NLRB is a criminal enterprise.

    • Sensei

      One of many…

    • The Other Kevin

      I’m half way through that. Unfortunately work and life are interfering today.

      • Tundra

        I’ll be interested to read your thoughts.

        When guys like that get worried, it’s kind of freaky.

  29. The Late P Brooks

    And yet, I’ve been buying Hostess-branded Twinkies, HoHos, and Ding Dongs for the office break room.

    Is this like when instead of firing the problem band member, the band pretends to break up, then re-forms behind that ex-band member’s back?

    The assets (brands, recipes) were sold in bankruptcy. Unions not included.

    • The Last American Hero

      Big 3 is taxpayer funded. Twinkies are not.

    • R.J.

      The landlord completely denied that exchange happened. And the guy got a big outpouring of money. Hmmm…..

      • Sensei

        Yup. This can go any way you want to spin it.

        • Tundra

          Juicy struct again?

          • R.J.

            Certainly a possibility.