If you have anger issues, this one is a great tool (h/t mindyourbusiness)
This week’s book:
Discourses and Selected Writings
Disclaimer: I’m not your Supervisor. These are my opinions after reading through these books a few times.
Epictetus was born a slave around 50 ad. His owner was Epaphroditus, a rich freedman who was once a slave of Nero. Though he was a slave Epictetus was sent to study philosophy under Musonius Rufus.
Epictetus was lame and there are some stories it was caused by his master and others that it was caused by disease.
He was a freedman when all philosophers were banished from Rome in 89 by the Emperor Domitian. He then started his school in Greece, and had many students. He did not leave any writings from his lessons, but one of his students, Flavius Arrian, took notes and wrote the Discourses.
Epictetus did not marry, had no children, and lived to be around 80-85. In retirement, he adopted a child that would have been abandoned and raised him with a woman.
He died sometime around AD 135.
He might be my favorite Stoic teacher. I love his bare bones and very straight forward approach.
Following is a paragraph-by-paragraph discussion of one of his lessons. Epictetus’s text appears in bold, my replies are in normal text.
Upon the art of argumentation
What a man ought to learn before he will know how to conduct an argument has been precisely defined by the philosophers of our school; but as to the proper use of what we have learned we are still utterly inexperienced. At all events, give to anyone of us you please some layman with whom to carry on an argument; he will find no way of dealing with him, but after moving the man a little, in case the latter thwarts him, our man gives up trying to handle him, and thereafter either reviles him, or laughs him to scorn, and remarks, “He is a mere layman; it is impossible to do anything with him.” But the real guide, whenever he finds a person going astray, leads him back to the right road, instead of leaving him with a scornful laugh or an insult. So also do you show him the truth and you will see that he follows. But so long as you do not show him the truth, do not laugh him to scorn, but rather recognize your own incapacity.
This is difficult for me. I have tried to explain things to people, my mother especially, and can make no headway. It seems as though the “truth” has become subjective and nebulous. From my mom’s point of view, I am the one that won’t see, yet when I have examples from history, or actual data, she handwaves it away.
5How did Socrates act? He used to force the man who was arguing with him to be his witness, and never needed any other witness. That is why he could say, “I can dispense with all the others, and am always satisfied to have my fellow-disputant for a witness; and the votes of the rest I do not take, but only that of my fellow-disputant.”
I have found the best thing I can do is ask questions. Sometimes this helps to show their hypocrisy (and isn’t that the worst part?) or attempt to engage their brain and make them think a little.
[1] For he used to make so clear the consequences which followed from the concepts, that absolutely everyone realized the contradiction involved and gave up the battle. “And so does the man who feels envy rejoice in it?”[2]—”Not at all; but he experiences pain rather than joy.” (By the contradiction in terms he has moved the other party to the argument.) “Very well, does envy seem to you to be feeling of pain at evils? And yet what envy is there of evils?” (Consequently, he has made his opponent say that envy is a feeling of pain at good things.) “Very well, would a man feel envy about matters that did not concern him in the least?”—”Not at all.” And so he filled out and articulated the concept, and after that went his way; he did not start in by saying, “Define envy for me,” and then, when the other had defined it, remark, “That is a bad definition you have made, for the definition term does not fit the subject defined.” 10Those are technical terms, and for that reason wearisome to the layman and hard for him to follow, and yet we are unable to dispense with them. But as to terms which the layman could himself follow, and so, by the assistance of his own external impressions, be able to accept or reject some proposition—we are absolutely unable to move him by their use. The result is that, recognizing this incapacity of ours, we naturally refrain from attempting the matter, those of us, I mean, who are at all cautious. But the rash multitude of men, when once they have let themselves in for something of this sort, get confused themselves and confuse others, and finally, after reviling their opponents and being themselves reviled, they walk away.
This reminds me of Steven Crowder’s “Change My Mind” segments. He always goes through the definitions to start and then uses those as a starting point of agreement. He never loses his cool and sometimes gets agreement, other times they agree to disagree and part friendly. Sometimes the leftist will lose their cool and show how empty their arguments are. One of my favorite moments was when he got a German girl to say that Germany does not put people in jail for speech. Then he gave her examples and she said, “But they were using hate speech”. The smugness on her face showed that she did not see the contradiction.
Now this was the first and most characteristic thing about Socrates, that he never got wrought up during an argument, never used any term of abuse or insolence, but endured the abuse of others, and put an end to strife. 15If you wish to know how great was the faculty he had in this field, read the Symposium of Xenophon, and you will see how many cases of strife he settled. Therefore, and with good reason, among the poets also very high praise has been accorded to the following sentiment:
“Soon doth he shrewdly make an end of a quarrel though weighty.”[3]
I wish I was better at keeping my cool in these situations. My wife says that even when I am calm, I still have “angry face”. This tendency gets worse when talking about COVID stupidity. When people refuse to look at data, and then accuse me of not caring that millions of people died, I have trouble with staying Stoic and trying to remember that we are all wrong about things.
Well, what then? Nowadays this activity is not a very safe one, and especially so in Rome. For the man who engages in it will clearly be under obligation not to do it in a corner, but he must go up to some rich person of consular rank, if it so chance, and ask him, “You there, can you tell to whose care you have entrusted your horses?” “I can, indeed,” answers the man. “Is it, then, some chance comer, a man who knows nothing about the care of horses?” “Not at all.” “And what then? Can you tell me to whom you have entrusted your gold, or your silver, or your clothing?” “I have not entrusted these, either, to a chance comer,” “And have you ever thought about entrusting your body to someone to look after it?” “Why, certainly.” “And, of course, he too is a man of special skill in the art of physical training, or medicine, is he not?” “Yes, indeed.” 20“Are these your most valuable possessions, or have you something else that is better than all of them?” “Just what do you mean?” “That, by Zeus, which utilizes these other things, and puts each of them to the test, and exercises deliberation?” “Ah so, you are talking about my soul, are you?” “You have understood me aright, for it is precisely this that I am talking about.” “By Zeus, I regard this as far and away the most valuable of all my possessions.” “Can you, then, tell in what way you have taken care of your soul? For it is not to be supposed that as wise a man as yourself and one so honoured in the city is recklessly and at random allowing the very best of his possessions to go to ruin through neglect.” “Certainly not.” “But have you yourself taken care of that possession? Did you learn how to take care of it from somebody else, or did you discover how yourself?” Then comes the danger that first he will say, “What is that to you, good sir? Are you my master?” and after that, if you persist in annoying him, that he will lift his fist and give you a blow. 25This was a pursuit that I too was very fond of once upon a time, before I fell to my present estate.
I would not recommend, hassling random people on the street in this way. Especially if they are in the group that can legally use violence against you.
It is a good thing to ponder that if I take care of my things well, why do I not take such care of myself? I try to, and think I do better than average, but that is a very low bar.
Music this week is from Sons of Apollo. I call them “Angry Dream Theater”. They have 2 former members from Dream Theater: drummer Mike Portnoy and keyboardist Derek Sherinian.
They also have bassist Billy Sheehan,vocalist Jeff Scott Soto, and guitarist Ron “Bumblefoot” Thal.
Sons Of Apollo – Coming Home – YouTube
SONS OF APOLLO – Signs Of The Time (OFFICIAL VIDEO) – YouTube
SONS OF APOLLO – Labyrinth (Live at the Roman Amphitheatre in Plovdiv 2018) – YouTube
I recently discovered them and if you like Dream Theater you should check them out.
Here’s an opportunity to practice your stoicism.
Like most laws, it all depends on which judge it ends up in front of.
I’m sure most Glibs have read it, but The Myth of the Rule of Law explains this and made me reconsider my beliefs about American Law.
https://uwlaw-omeka.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/original/1d98367dc355cc67cc6d32d14111a84c7f79bfe6.pdf
The rule of law is like the free market – a lot of myth, and a large dose of aspiration, and a lot of ugly human reality.
I’m sure there were copious historical footnotes showing that good moral character has deep roots as a requirement to carry a firearm.
They claim that “good moral character” just means “not being a dangerous person” and the US has a long history of forbidding weapons to dangerous people.
Aside from their being a considerable gap between “a dangerous person” and “not of good moral character”, which alone invalidates the attempt, I have another question. How is it determined that one was a dangerous person and thus denied Constitutional rights? Was it the opinion of a bureaucrat somewhere, or was there some actual, you know, court finding after due process, such as a criminal conviction?
At CVG on way to Vegas. Once there will have to run Cat5/6 to camera points through the crawl space. Can’t trust teens to keep wireless cameras charged. Hub will be relocated to the locked master bedroom.
Then off for a 4-day drive once again across country! Yay me….ugh
Yuck.
With two cats, a dog and a FIL. I like all of em but I am guessing it will test my stoicism
We moved from Phoenix back to Iowa in November ’92. Two vehicles. Three teens, two dogs, and three cats, plus enough clothing and personal gear to survive upwards of a month in a hotel. None of that actually include winter gear appropriate for the arrival of winter in Iowa.
Good times.
Mmm… can’t wait for my five day spring drive, and my 10 day fall drive to HH.
Driving is the best.
I look forward to seeing you. The wife and I are already booked into a hotel for HH.
This is where I failed teaching my children. I could not keep logical explanations of what I believed in my head for more than 3 seconds, if I ever really knew them in the first place.
For instance, war on drugs? EVIL. Why? 🥴 asset forfeiture … But why? … *cue need for long-winded explanation that none of us have the bandwidth for* … other reasons … What are those reasons? … Ugh. Can’t do that kind of heavy intellectual weightlifting with my kids without pre-canned soundbites, which require a level of foreknowledge I couldn’t give them. (I picked this because my brother threw that out as a challenge on my beliefs and I agreed with him, which shocked him, so the nitty gritties never got discussed.)
My religious beliefs? I tried, but this is such a personal thing for me and I was so traumatized by what my grandmother had told me, I just couldn’t explain it in words they would understand. Milk before meat, yeah, I know. Didn’t know how to give them the milk before the meat.
So I pretty much don’t argue with anybody about anything. I canNOT remember the shit I need to remember in that moment to be persuasive.
And really, I’m not going to argue about something anyway if I can’t be persuasive instead of a bitch.
Yes those types of things require stamina of the minds and adults get broken down by the why’s and children want to rebel and do everything contrary to your teachings. Eventually though, what you taught, even if never all the way through, creeps back into their minds.
Oldest teen was getting swayed with the whole non-binary stuff but realized it was toxic and I hope that was because I tried to present the ‘why’ as best I could without out right calling it bat shit crazy
When my kids entered the “why” stage of development, I would give them blatantly wrong answers and force them to explain why they didn’t believe my answers.
Calvin’s father was my spiritual advisor.
👍 Calvin’s father is awesome.
+1 how they test bridges test weights.
A modified Socratic method of sorts. Defend your position so I can take it apart!
The true goal was to get them to stop asking questions.
It was a successful strategy.
But it did encourage the development critical thinking skills before they learned the true lesson and stopped bugging me. 😉
Note, I did frequently give them real answers. They had to learn to tell the difference.
I can’t think that fast on my feet.
XX figured out as a sophomore in high school the whole nonbinary/furry/queer (as opposed to being gay) was attention-seeking.
I try not to argue with my mom, but she likes to try to convince me for some reason.
Last time I was home I did a much better job of just asking her questions, instead of telling her things.
That probably wouldn’t work with teenagers.
Best conversations I have had in my life are wirh my step father. He allowed free thought but never without the challenge to that thought.
I remember one time in my youth I had not one, but two blondes in my room (nothing naughty) and all he did was walk by and say “you are in for a world of hurt”. In the moment didn’t think about it but a couple months later I told him “you were right….it was a world of hurt but worth it!” He just laughed.
Cannot believe he will be 81 soon. Which, I am in contact with the LA Kings and should be doing something for his b-day.
This is same problem that many LP candidates have. They know the soundbites but can’t defend them. And, unfortunately, a political campaign doesn’t usually provide a forum for lengthy discussions.
Who said a lengthy discussion is politically attractive? That’s why the LP flops and the Dems/Reps don’t – the latter understand that slogans and symbols are what attract mass support.
*deletes lengthy reply*
It just goes to what we oddballs hereabouts really are.
I think about that every time my kids ask me a question and I say the soundbite and then watch their eyes glaze over while I try to explain, which requires backstory and on and on and on, and they’ve already tuned out.
Argumentation
For many at the U.N. talks, which is being held in the United Arab Emirates, COP28 can only be recognized as a success if it results in a deal to phase out all fossil fuels, the burning of which is the chief driver of the climate crisis.
The language of the final agreement, expected by or around the Dec. 12 end of the conference, will be closely monitored. A “phase out” commitment would likely require a shift away from fossil fuels until their use is eliminated, while a “phase down” could indicate a reduction in their use — but not an absolute end.
——-
“People are arguing that the fossil fuel industry, which is obviously responsible for the emissions that are going up, needs to step up and do more. I think that Sultan Al-Jaber would say that — I say that certainly. They can and must do more in order to solve this problem much more rapidly,” Kerry said.
“We are in a race against time, and I know that everybody here does accept that concept,” he added.
The 1.5°C temperature threshold is widely recognized as crucial because so-called tipping points become more likely beyond this level. Tipping points are thresholds at which small changes can lead to dramatic shifts in Earth’s entire life support system.
And if one side has declared themselves the custodians and protectors of absolute truth? You’re just pissing into the wind.
I wonder what the locals think of all this. “Hmm, you want us to cut our throats by getting rid of the one thing we have to offer”?
I suspect the locals are thinking “By Allah, these idiots spend money like they stole it. Oh, wait . . . .”
Rickey Henderson didn’t steal that many bases in his whole career.
‘5How did Socrates act? He used to force the man who was arguing with him to be his witness, and never needed any other witness. That is why he could say, “I can dispense with all the others, and am always satisfied to have my fellow-disputant for a witness; and the votes of the rest I do not take, but only that of my fellow-disputant.”
If I am understanding this, he is talking about votes on who was more convincing/correct/won the argument? That is a baller attitude, but we all can’t be Socrates.
‘It is a good thing to ponder that if I take care of my things well, why do I not take such care of myself? I try to, and think I do better than average, but that is a very low bar.’
But what about your soul broski?
At one point I was very depressed and I stopped brushing my teeth regularly- I finally conquered that by reminding myself I had the time and the right to teeth… another useful lens: what would you do to/for/advise a friend or even a stranger? Treat yourself better than you treat anyone else and you will reward yourself.
I think that’s correct, Socrates was saying the only opinion in the debate that mattered was the person he was debating and if he was convinced, then it was a clear victory for Socrates.
Somethig that might help in an argument is a technique that I learned from reading Stephen Covey. Establish a ground rule that you can’t present your point of view until you can state the other person’s point of view to their satisfaction. Not only might you learn something about your own POV, it could make it easier to find holes in the other’s argument.
I like that rule.
Noted
So, if nobody can give their point of view until the other guy does, who goes first?
Throw fingers?
After you, Alphonse? *shudders at the idea of an hours’ worth of politeness*
/off topic
Dafne Keen, the star of Logan, has closed a deal to reprise her role as Laura, also known as X-23, in the highly anticipated Deadpool 3,
They grow up so quickly
Would you call that look “stoic”.
/back on topic
“how much is Ryan Reynolds getting paid and how much of that will he use to improve our squad?”
/Wrexham AFC supporters
It’s been a long week, I can’t think about serious stuff at this point.
So, wolverine dies in Logan (uh, too late for spoiler alert?). Bringing Laura into Deadpool 3 as an adult (long after wolverine dies), does this mean that he is some how resurrected in this timeline to be in the Deadpool 3 movie?
One thing I’ve seen is that Deadpool 3 is the only MCU movie releasing next year. Now, you may ask yourself, how is this an MCU movie? The first two Deadpool movies weren’t.
The answer my friends? Part of the plot of Deadpool 3 is that Deadpool is moving over to the MCU, and bringing Wolverine with him. So… multiverse.
You have to double clap when you say it.
Always possible they have a back-in-the-day segment so that Logan can be dead in the present time.
Bah. Wolverine’s healing factor is so potent that he will eventually regenerate as long as one of the letters in the word “wolverine” still exists.
Portnoy is back in Dream Theatre. Now if they can just get back to where they were in the late 90’s before their music went downhill…
They still had some good stuff for awhile, even the first CD without Portnoy was good, but then I bought The Astonishing and I was astonished at how bad it was.
What do you think of Sons of Apollo?
It’s their own fault
Stellantis has announced that it plans to cut what will likely be thousands of jobs from its Jeep plants in Detroit and Toledo, Ohio, blaming California’s emissions regulations for putting the company at a competitive disadvantage.
Stellantis, which also owns the Ram, Chrysler, Dodge, and Fiat brands, has indicated that 2,455 workers may be impacted at the Detroit plant where its makes the Jeep Grand Cherokee, as well as an additional 1,225 workers at a plant in Toledo that produces the Jeep Wrangler and Gladiator, according to The Detroit News. To curb production due to lagging sales of the Jeep brand, Stellantis plans to shift from an alternative work schedule to a traditional two-shift operation at the Toledo plant, and shave off one of its three shifts at the Detroit plant, which employs 4,600 people. The job losses will be in effect as early as February 5.
Stellantis, among other automakers, has been actively pushing back against Biden’s efforts to reduce carbon emissions and boost electric vehicles, arguing that strict regulations could result in billions of dollars of fines for the company.
According to Reuters, since the summer Stellantis has limited its shipments of both ICE vehicles and EVs to dealers in the 14 states that have adopted California Air Resources Board (CARB) rules, which are stricter than national criteria. Meaning, if you shopped in those states, only plug-in hybrid SUVs would be readily available in stock, but you’d have to special order an all-electric version or ICE models. Dealers in states that don’t adhere to CARB standards had the opposite scenario play out, of having no or very few hybrids in stock, and an ICE-only inventory. The rationale for all of this maneuvering, as The Drive points out, is in the 14 states that adhere to the California rules, manufacturers need to sell a certain percentage of zero-emissions vehicles and plug-in hybrids, meaning Stellantis had to prioritize these areas.
But here’s the rub for Stellantis: In 2020, Ford, Honda, Volkswagen, and BMW struck a special agreement with California to play by a different set of rules, where compliance is measured by sales nationwide, not just in CARB states. Stellantis says that changes the game and puts its company at a disadvantage because those numbers are easier to meet.
They have not yet learned to love Big Brother. Their insolence must be punished.
California really is living “everything within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state”.
It was already bad in the 1980s. I can’t imagine how bad it is now. As far as these states tying themselves to CA emissions: When is that dam going to break? Those states are poised to ruin themselves quickly in the coming years.
Well in PA, it was the bureaucrats, not the legislature that decided. Democracy!!@!!!
I had to be Stoic last night when The Hebrew Hammer went dark across all streaming services. Who knows why. The short feature, Hebrew Hammer vs. Hitler was locked behind a paywall since I wrote my post.
I remained Stoic and posted a different film.
Doing a search on JustWatch, it appears that the Hebrew Hammer is on FreeVee (formerly IMDB.tv), Plex (streaming), Redbox (I didn’t even know they had streaming), and Peacock (not sure if it’s paywalled or not).
All of that is K-Mart grade streaming. WTF?
My impression of Hammer vs. Hitler was very valid. It was the most tone-deaf note that could have been made. OMG. I am sorry nobody will see it now.
I recall reading some of the thoughts behind it (I think I recall a Kickstarter for it as well). It was still probably a better movie than WW84.
It was a ten minute short to score funding, which barely hit $50,000. Someday I will make a fake log in and share it with you. It was not funny, tone deaf, and just a wrong step off a cliff.
Local paper sends a reporter for a man’s 100th birthday.
Reporter: So, how did you manage to live so long?
Old Man: I never argue.
R: Oh, come on! It can’t be that simple! It must have been not drinking or not smoking or eating the right foods!
OM: Yeah, you’re probably right.
great
Easy come, easy go
Unlike many philanthropists, Scott, 53, doesn’t donate money through a foundation, which would be required to disclose more information under Internal Revenue Service regulations.
Since her 2019 divorce from Amazon founder Jeff Bezos — currently the world’s third-richest person with $168.7 billion — Scott has donated more than $16.5 billion to more than 1,900 nonprofits. She’s worth $33.7 billion, according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index.
In 2019, Scott signed the Giving Pledge, a non-binding promise billionaires make to donate the majority of their wealth.
“In addition to whatever assets life has nurtured in me, I have a disproportionate amount of money to share,” she wrote in a letter on the Giving Pledge website. “My approach to philanthropy will continue to be thoughtful. It will take time and effort and care. But I won’t wait. And I will keep at it until the safe is empty.”
Share some with me.
Poisonous
House Republicans have once again attempted to pass a law that will increase emissions and cost Americans trillions of dollars in additional fuel and health costs.
The bill in question is called H.R.4468, the “CARS” act. It was introduced by Representatives Tim Walberg (R-MI) and Andrew Clyde (R-GA). It passed the House on Wednesday by a vote of 221-197, with 216 Republicans and 5 Democrats voting to poison you and cost you trillions of dollars and 197 Democrats and zero Republicans voting to protect you from pollution and save you money.
The law, which has not yet been voted on in the Senate and will be vetoed by President Biden if it does reach his desk, intends to block the implementation of the EPA’s new emissions rules, which will avoid nearly 10 billion tons of emissions and save Americans trillions of dollars in health and fuel costs if implemented.
Honest? Honest as the day is long.
Name one single regulation that has saved any American money.
The 21st Amendment?
🍻
Naturally, the bill has no upsides whatsoever. It was passed solely because of the sexual thrill Republicans get from killing people and wasting money.
Various lobbying groups have had their say in the interim, with the Alliance for Automotive Innovation (AAI) wrongly saying that the rules are “neither reasonable nor achievable.” The AAI represents nearly every major automaker – many of them, like Ford and GM, have claimed to be all-in on EVs and yet still lend their support to a group that lobbies for worse emission standards.
Dissent is treason.
Let me guess, by “emissions” and “pollution” they mean “carbon”.
And only measured as during operation and ignoring the source generation of electricity.
Funny how all that “dust-to-dust” analysis of environmental impact just . . . disappears when the topic is EVs, windmills, or solar panels.
Whoah.
Someone farted in my office.
>.>
*Ahem..
STEVE SMITH SAY HIM WHO SMELT IT DEALT IT.
BY DEALT IT MEAN…
I’m the only one in here, but I admit nothing.
And only measured as during operation and ignoring the source generation of electricity.
We deem these conveyances to be zero-emission vehicles.